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2021 SCCA thread...

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  • Interesting. If the performance bar is lowered for P2, or a P3 class is created, it would instantly bring back unmodified Sports 2000 cars, as well as many older SR models. I could see flat or open bottoms and a power target of 180hp. Still, I wouldn't want to see some of the truly well-prepared cars in P2 be outclassed in P1. A lot of work has been done within the rules to make very clean entries. They should be contending for Runoffs titles as-is.

    I'm all for OW streamlining. Perhaps 2 levels of prep in both composite monocoques and tube-frame categories? 4 eventual formula classes, along with the omnipresent Fords, Vees and 500s.
    "Everyone in front of you is cheatin', and everyone behind you sux!"--nonpareil racer T. Kester

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    • They definitely don't need any new formula classes as things stand. Work out the kinks in FA and FX and SCCA should be pretty good to go in that regard.

      This year's Runoffs is going to decide a lot about FX's future what with a decent number of Elans in the class. If the FMs win again Mr. FC will no longer have to fight to keep them out of his class, and it could encourage owners of other "orphaned" formula cars that are eligible to give them a go. If the FCs win, well... My friend's idea about F1000 cars will need to be seriously looked at to give that class any real diversity.

      SCCA just needs to find an alternate source of warmth for their heads and let FRA and F1000s run Atlantic-width tires to solve it's problems - though the genuinely impressive Runoffs entry list is going to put off any consideration of this in the near future. In point of fact, the only non-Atlantic cars on the list that SHOULDN'T be running Atlantic-size tires in order to be enabled to be competitive are the 97-17 spec F3 cars(which should be about on par without modification).

      In fact, the more I think about what each class needs to solve, the more genius my friend's F1000 idea starts sounding. I suspect the FX versions would need some extra weight, though.

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      • So I overlooked this somehow before, but one of the F1000s entered in FA has a BMW engine in it. Given that I'm sure they're tuning the engine as far as it can go, it'll be interesting to see what this can do - I'm sure that thing's been turned up as far as it can go.

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        • Originally posted by FormulaFox View Post
          So I overlooked this somehow before, but one of the F1000s entered in FA has a BMW engine in it. Given that I'm sure they're tuning the engine as far as it can go, it'll be interesting to see what this can do - I'm sure that thing's been turned up as far as it can go.
          That would be past FM scourge Juan Marchand. Family life has settled down, so he purchased Jay and Brian Novak's previous FB Runoffs champ, with Bimmer power installed. (So THAT explains the paint job.) He's had a host of teething problems, along with a nasty paddock fire at RA. When it holds together for a lap or two he's quite fast. Shop time should be advancing his cause, so we'll see.
          "Everyone in front of you is cheatin', and everyone behind you sux!"--nonpareil racer T. Kester

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          • New rumor hit my inbox overnight alleging that the SCCA is planning a testing program in 2022 to determine "allowable upgrades" to the Formula Regional Americas car for Formula Atlantic competition in both Club Racing and Formula Race Promotions beginning in 2023. Things allegedly planned to be tested include wider tires, more engine power, and allowing custom front wings.

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            • With radical changes, the F3 car won't be usable in the "pro" series. And I don't see why someone who wants to conquer club FA would start with an F3 car. Maybe if the motor can be easily re-mapped for more power, and easily checked in tech. Confounding.
              "Everyone in front of you is cheatin', and everyone behind you sux!"--nonpareil racer T. Kester

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              • Originally posted by dalz View Post
                With radical changes, the F3 car won't be usable in the "pro" series. And I don't see why someone who wants to conquer club FA would start with an F3 car. Maybe if the motor can be easily re-mapped for more power, and easily checked in tech. Confounding.
                It's a matter of cost. If it could be done with something as simple as a boost in engine power(easily achieved since the FRA uses a turbocharger and the K20 takes well to turbo boost) or just by fitting wider tires with no other changes, the FRA car is, in theory, cheaper to race over time, though not necessarily cheaper on initial purchase for the moment. Even that will change eventually, though - the older no-longer-built-new Atlantic cars are eventually going to start getting more expensive to change hands, as well.

                Custom aero on any level would completely wipe out any benefit to the FRA except for safety, which is where I think the car's major appeal lies as well(the halo having well proven itself and all that).

                Get the thing into a spec that can compete and I think you'll see an increase in entries from people using them - especially since you can qualify for the Runoffs by racing in Formula Regional Americas. Did well in FRA? Why not take a shot at the Runoffs if all you need to do is crank up the power and/or pop a different set of wheels on. Not much point if your car won't be competitive, though.

                One can be forgiven for forgetting just how much cost is an issue in FA when looking at this year's Runoffs entry list, though.

                If I owned an FRA team and I could make my car FA competitive with such minor tweaks, I'd make a car available to a Runoffs entrant. Especially to, say, one who got in using a PFM thanks to lack of competition in his region.
                Last edited by FormulaFox; 09-12-2021, 04:46 PM.

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                • Originally posted by FormulaFox View Post
                  If I owned an FRA team and I could make my car FA competitive with such minor tweaks, I'd make a car available to a Runoffs entrant. Especially to, say, one who got in using a PFM thanks to lack of competition in his region.
                  In a similar vein, we've pulled the plug on the FM-P2. The parts have not arrived. There's no point in going there and being dead last. Sux. But then, the boss is going into FX with a stock FM....

                  Anyone have a Stohr for hire? Runoffs qualified driver has helmet, will travel.
                  "Everyone in front of you is cheatin', and everyone behind you sux!"--nonpareil racer T. Kester

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                  • Originally posted by dalz View Post
                    Anyone have a Stohr for hire? Runoffs qualified driver has helmet, will travel.
                    ...Dangit, if only I hadn't just dropped all my money on paying off my Civic. :P

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                    • Okay, so I got an opportunity to ask someone who's worked with the FRA Ligier JS F3 what he thought of the rumor about the testing program for bringing it more in line with FA speeds.

                      "If the SCCA knows jack about this car the rumor is completely false because they'd already know it only needs a power boost."

                      Basically, according to him, the car doesn't need new aero or wider tires because it already corners better than anything else on similarly sized tires. This surprised me since its slower than the Tatuus PM18, but apparently the Ligier car is slower because it's got more drag, is 22 kilos heavier, and is down by about 10-20 horsepower, so it loses out a lot in the straights. But its cornering ability meets or exceeds the Tatuus so id they just bumped the car up to 300-310 horsepower he figures it would match the Swift 014 at the very least.

                      Despite being draggier, it's also a very aero-efficient design when it comes to downforce cars so getting the straightline speed up will have a much stronger effect on it's cornering than most cars.

                      Yeah, that surprised me, but I've looked up some video of FRA and IP2000 races and it does certainly look like the FRA corners a lot better, so I think he's right. Pretty neat thing to realize, but then it also annoys me since it indicates that the FIA screwed up with the regional F3 idea even more than I previously thought.

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                      • Originally posted by dalz View Post

                        In a similar vein, we've pulled the plug on the FM-P2. The parts have not arrived. There's no point in going there and being dead last. Sux. But then, the boss is going into FX with a stock FM....

                        Anyone have a Stohr for hire? Runoffs qualified driver has helmet, will travel.
                        Saw a Stohr P1 posted for sale just yesterday on Facebook. It's in Columbus, OH. Maybe come to an agreement to use it?

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                        • Somewhat on subject....

                          https://racer.com/2021/09/16/runoffs...-back-to-indy/

                          Full Runoffs schedule

                          https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_fi...pdf?1630698470
                          BAN SHREDDED CHEESE! MAKE AMERICA GRATE AGAIN!

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                          • The BMW powered F1000 and the F4 car have been withdrawn from their respective classes. Sadness - I really wanted to see how they'd get on.

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                            • Marchand's Bimmer FB showed some nice craftsmanship but just wasn't ready for prime time yet. Anyway how well would the German powerplant stack up to the latest offerings from Japan?

                              Without the F4, the FX tally includes 8 FMs, 5 USF2s, and a FormulaSPEED, a decent MZR-powered chassis that never found momentum for mass production. Boy I threw it away. If I kept my early-season plans with ArmsUp, I'd be in the hands-down fastest DP08 in the country. If I didn't win, it would've been a monumental failure on my part. I don't think that would've happened.
                              "Everyone in front of you is cheatin', and everyone behind you sux!"--nonpareil racer T. Kester

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by dalz View Post
                                Marchand's Bimmer FB showed some nice craftsmanship but just wasn't ready for prime time yet. Anyway how well would the German powerplant stack up to the latest offerings from Japan?
                                In stock form it's more powerful(205bhp) than the equivalent offerings from Suzuki(185) and Yamaha(199). But tunability is key here and Suzuki leaves Yamaha in the dust in that area. I can easily see German engineering being more tunable, but a bigger headache to do so. Also, pretty sure the BMW engine is more expensive.

                                And because there's a great joke about German engineering at the start of it, I'll leave this video about the bike the engine comes from here:

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