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A well reasoned treatise on global prototype convergence

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  • #16
    Originally posted by thehairpin View Post
    LMH = new LMP1
    LMDh = new LMP2
    Nope
    LMH ~=LMPDh
    LMP2

    Note the target Le Mans lap time for the Hypercar is such that the current LMP2 cars will have to be slowed.
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    • #17
      Apparently Porsche is now reconsidering things and are interested in LMDh
      Skypigeon "If you're not on the bus, don't whine about the direction it's going."

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      • #18
        A number of manufacturers have reportedly 'interested' in LMDh (in quotes because that level of interest seems to vary considerably). At least they have been represented at the various meetings.

        Seems they all are waiting for the more definitive announcements planned for Sebring.
        In addition to Porsche, I've seen the names Ford, Lamborghini, McLaren, even Lexus.

        Hey, if even half of those interested take the plunge, it'll be a great thing for prototype racing.
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        • #19
          Every time any racing series announces new specs, they always say there is "interest" among manufacturers. However, there is always a huge gulf between the number with "interest" and actual participants.

          So when I see cars on the grid taking the green I'll then form an opinion of the new greatest bestest idea for prototypes.
          The Ayn Rand of Indycar

          No one had to badge the Offy.

          Crapping all over threads since 2000.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by DaveL View Post
            Every time any racing series announces new specs, they always say there is "interest" among manufacturers. However, there is always a huge gulf between the number with "interest" and actual participants.

            So when I see cars on the grid taking the green I'll then form an opinion of the new greatest bestest idea for prototypes.
            No doubt.
            BUT There are manufactures who want to be on the stage at Le Mans. But they weren't willing to fork out the $200MM/year it took to play in the LMP1H class. And apparently very few at the $40MM/year (plus upfront development costs) for the Hypercar class.

            The difference here is it's the manufacturers themselves who have spoken of interest, not the sanctioning body.

            I don't think I'd call LMDh the 'greatest bestest idea'....just the most pragmatic, practical solution for the current day.
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            • #21
              I think one of the things that may have prompted some of this is Aston Martin potential money troubles.
              Skypigeon "If you're not on the bus, don't whine about the direction it's going."

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              • #22
                It's only interest, but interest seems to be spreading for LMDh
                Ferrari
                https://www.motorsport.com/wec/news/...letta/4682748/
                Audi
                https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/...oxes-for-audi/
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                • #23
                  Originally posted by DaveL View Post
                  Every time any racing series announces new specs, they always say there is "interest" among manufacturers. However, there is always a huge gulf between the number with "interest" and actual participants.

                  So when I see cars on the grid taking the green I'll then form an opinion of the new greatest bestest idea for prototypes.
                  This.

                  Manufacturers only have so much money. The are not going to be in ever racing series. Efforts need to be made to create classes for small budget teams. At one time IMSA GT 3 had more cars than any other IMSA classes combined. Time to start looking at what keeps people out of racing and not keep catering to certain organizations .
                  "Lead,follow or get the hell out of the way!

                  Lee Iacocca

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Jakester View Post
                    It's only interest, but interest seems to be spreading for LMDh
                    Ferrari
                    https://www.motorsport.com/wec/news/...letta/4682748/
                    Audi
                    https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/...oxes-for-audi/
                    Ferrari politicking. No big surprise there. Just an evolved form of "we're evaluating a program."

                    Call me back if/when they commit. DPi has LONG left me jaded over these stories.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by turbopanzer View Post

                      This.

                      Manufacturers only have so much money. The are not going to be in ever racing series. Efforts need to be made to create classes for small budget teams. At one time IMSA GT 3 had more cars than any other IMSA classes combined. Time to start looking at what keeps people out of racing and not keep catering to certain organizations .
                      You're right about the money, exactly why the $200MM/year LMP1H cars became unsustainable, and why a $40MM/year hypercar has only attracted a couple of serious efforts.

                      I'm assuming you meant IMSA GTD (though the cars are basically GT3 cars). There were 18 GTD entries (from 7 mfg) at Daytona compared to 20 DPi/LMP2/GTLM entries this year.
                      BTW, GT3 cars are in the $400K-$500K range, so they're not exactly 'small budget' efforts. But they are quite successful worldwide, and actually may make a few dollars for the manufacturers.

                      Yeah, I'll agree the real thing is when a new mfg car shows up on the grid...but this is one of the few recent times I've been actually optimistic about 'prototype' sports car racing.
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                      • #26
                        WEC takes another hit...Rebellion, one of the few long term independents, to step away from motorsports after 2020 Le Mans.
                        Likely this puts paid to the planned Rebellion-Peugeot hookup for a HyperCar in 2022. Puegeot says Rebellion withdrawal does not affect their planned 2022 WEC entry.
                        Meanwhile the upcoming COTA WEC race will have a grand total of 3 LMP1 cars, 2 of which are Toyota.

                        https://racer.com/2020/02/13/rebelli...after-le-mans/
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                        • #27
                          Looks like WEC just took another HyperCar hit.
                          A major blow has been dealt to the ACO and FIA World Endurance Championship’s plans with the cancellation of Aston Martin Racing’s Hypercar program utilizing its new Valkyrie road car.
                          https://racer.com/2020/02/18/aston-m...ercar-program/

                          So now the HyperCar potential 2020/2021 entries look like -
                          Toyota - still dedicated to the Hypercar, would opine this is the most solid entry.
                          ByKolles - seems to be plotting Hypercar, but little info except "115 days to reveal" at Le Mans 2020.
                          https://www.lmhypercar.com/

                          Peugeot, who is not scheduled to enter until 2022, is reconsidering whether their entry will be a Hypercar or an LMDh pending March/Sebring further details on LMDh. And the Oreca/Peugeot planned alliance has crumbled, with Oreca now focusing on LMDh. Though Peugeot has now partnered with Ligier (more evidence of an LMDh?).
                          https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/...hypercar-lmdh/

                          Glickenhaus has released renders of a Hypercar, but there seems to be very little in the way of hardware in existence at this point. No engine partner has been decided upon. No defined engine would seem to put the design team at great disadvantage since the engine would have a significant impact on packaging of the chassis. Beginning to think the 'Glick' may be vaporware.
                          EDIT: updated to confirm Glickenhaus plans on missing the first 4 rounds of the 2020/2021 with debut planned in Feb2021 at Kyalami.
                          https://www.autosport.com/wec/news/1...f-wec-hypercar

                          Rebellion is pulling out, so no Hypercar or LMDh from them.

                          Not long until September, when the 2020/2021 season starts at Silverstone.
                          Last edited by Jakester; 02-18-2020, 05:37 PM.
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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Jakester View Post

                            You're right about the money, exactly why the $200MM/year LMP1H cars became unsustainable, and why a $40MM/year hypercar has only attracted a couple of serious efforts.

                            I'm assuming you meant IMSA GTD (though the cars are basically GT3 cars). There were 18 GTD entries (from 7 mfg) at Daytona compared to 20 DPi/LMP2/GTLM entries this year.
                            BTW, GT3 cars are in the $400K-$500K range, so they're not exactly 'small budget' efforts. But they are quite successful worldwide, and actually may make a few dollars for the manufacturers.

                            Yeah, I'll agree the real thing is when a new mfg car shows up on the grid...but this is one of the few recent times I've been actually optimistic about 'prototype' sports car racing.
                            Don't get too excited. Wait and see how many actually get to the grid in hypercar. A downturn in the economy can have a great impact on who will show.
                            "Lead,follow or get the hell out of the way!

                            Lee Iacocca

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by turbopanzer View Post

                              Don't get too excited. Wait and see how many actually get to the grid in hypercar. A downturn in the economy can have a great impact on who will show.
                              Hypercar? Didn't you read my post right above yours?
                              Hypercar is hurting.
                              And yes, I'm still optimistic about LMDh...there are several manufacturers who are in serious conversations...but tempering that optimism until Sebring announcements.
                              BAN SHREDDED CHEESE! MAKE AMERICA GRATE AGAIN!

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Jakester View Post

                                Hypercar? Didn't you read my post right above yours?
                                Hypercar is hurting.
                                And yes, I'm still optimistic about LMDh...there are several manufacturers who are in serious conversations...but tempering that optimism until Sebring announcements.
                                Yes I did. But many things need to transpire before LMDh takes hold. Ferrari may be one of several to be looking at it, but do you really see them dropping F! program?
                                "Lead,follow or get the hell out of the way!

                                Lee Iacocca

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