One & Only Comparo

[JMFVET]

With this being the only weekend of grand am and alms on same track, same weekend, has anyone charted how the different classes matched up on lap times?

[Automotive]

With this being the only weekend of grand am and alms on same track, same weekend, has anyone charted how the different classes matched up on lap times?

As we are still in transit back home from an enjoyable (and expensive) weekend, I don't have lap times, but will offer some opinions and observations from my point of view

Attendance was like the old days . When racing was relavent!

Continental Challenge series stole the weekend. 50 car grid of fast "Trans Am" old school series cars of varst variety. Other than the terrible first stint of spanks causing too many cautions, and once the race settled in, the racing through the field was fantastic. This series needs proper attention by Nascar.

Grand Am DP race was interesting and cars looked physically fast. They don't look like fast cars however as compared to P1 or 2 or PC car. Actually PC looks great without the SUV look of the shark fin. The Production class of GA seems uninteresting, and looked forward to ALMS GT the next day. There was one 911 that was driven so poorly it was slower than the diesel class until the second driver got in. And I really didn't expect the diesel Mazda was RWD. Deriously.
ALMS race was not too exciting. Too many VERY long yellows for minute
incidents. GT was good, and it appeared that the strategies for stops evened out in the end.

The weekends in poundthefuture are gonna have to be value driven to keep interest. Three endurance races this weekend is what drove four of us to spend our weekend cash at RA and plan to stumble in about 2am this AM after a long drive. How will poundthefuture get 3 strong series in a weekend? Nationwide or trucks?

[ARROWZ46]

The GTE race was very exciting...all the cars pitted at the same time & 5 cars legitimately had a shot at the victory. 3 of those remaining GTE cars could at least see the "top 5".

Agree that its hard to make 3 P1 cars into an exciting battle though.

BTW, here is all the times in a link on ALL the lap times at Road America... those 425? HP LMPC racers were ALL faster than the GA/DP's (which have over 525HP?...)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AtnJ_BJlVwrOdFhydElfV1RxV0ZKdk1hRFlJQVRDQlE&single=true&gid=0&output=html

[Jakester]

And I really didn't expect the diesel Mazda was RWD.

I believe the GX Mazda 6 diesel is actually last year's RX8 tube frame chassis with mods to accomodate the Mazda 6 'four door' bodywork. A Prep B car per Grand Am rules (as is the Stevenson Camaro).

[Automotive]

Those are Q times on that spreadsheet. Would like to see race times.

2:21.6 during the race for Nissan Z in Continental Challenge - beats two cars in the GrandAm race.

[ARROWZ46]

Those are Q times on that spreadsheet. Would like to see race times.

2:21.6 during the race for Nissan Z in Continental Challenge - beats two cars in the GrandAm race.

Pathetic...

Aren't the race times usually SLOWER than Q times? 2014 is going to involve some very unpopular BoP IMO...

Congrats to the folks at SRT Motorsport!!! The #93 had pole position & the #91 wins the race.




Check out Fox Production Films FB page for tons of great images (more than just "Snakes"...)

[nezy37]

http://www.alms.com/results

http://www.grand-am.com/scheduleResults/results.aspx?eid=3485&sid=1

Both results lists give you the car's fast lap. All three prototype classes in ALMS are faster than the DP's. It has to come down to downforce. Saw on drive the other day that the specifications of both the LMP2 and DP are very similar from a hp, weight, wheelbase perspective. LMP2 makes a whole lot more downforce and is a alot faster as a result.

Didn't get a chance to get to the Grand Am race. ALMS was disappointing, too much caution. But as great as the previous two were you can't expect that every time out. Good to see Viper get a win. Good to see the Delta Wing compete. The late caution, killed what would have been an interesting P2 battle but it happens.

I know there are only 3 P1 cars, and Picket is light years ahead of Dyson and the DW so it isn't much to watch but just having that Muscle Milk car fly by every couple of minutes is worth it if you're there. I'm going to miss p1

[ARROWZ46]

Using the Q times is pretty relevant due to the track & weather conditions being pretty damn close the majority of cars set the times. ALMS classes set those times in less than a 2 hour time window...

[FormulaFox]

LMP2 and DP are very similar from a hp, weight, wheelbase perspective. LMP2 makes a whole lot more downforce and is a alot faster as a result.

Not quite - DP is about 300 pounds heavier in the minimum weight department, which can make a difference in cornering and initial acceleration. However by lowering minimum weight the design of the DP results in a much higher center of gravity, creating setup problems even IF you increase the downforce.

This is by no means a straightforward matter.

[JMFVET]

Thanks guys

[nezy37]

Not quite - DP is about 300 pounds heavier in the minimum weight department, which can make a difference in cornering and initial acceleration. However by lowering minimum weight the design of the DP results in a much higher center of gravity, creating setup problems even IF you increase the downforce.

This is by no means a straightforward matter.

well I stand corrected, that is significant, perhaps as much as the aero difference. I will say as much flack as the DP's get for being ugly they are better in person. They look big on TV, walking through the paddock I was surprised how small they were.

If you can't cut the weight you can add a whole lot of HP, I'd imagine with ease. The whole idea was to slow them down around Daytona though was it not?

I don't have a problem with DP racing, its good. I just don't want to have it marketed to me as the pinicle of sports car racing in America because that would be sad.

[ARROWZ46]

The GA/DP's have a very small splitter in the front, a single element (& spec) rear wing, & no tunnels or underbody aero like the ALMS P2, PC, & even the GTE class cars have.

More HP won't fix everything for DPs in 2014. :nono: The current LMPC car has a 435HP Chevy motor. IIRC the DP's have almost 100HP more right now & still are SLOWER than the ALMS "spec" prototype. I understand the current DP teams wanting to keep their equipment, but how much are they going to have to spend to speed themselves up for 2014?

[SteveK51]

Here's a good graphic representation, ignoring the P1's since they go away after 2013:

[Jakester]

I do not envy Scott Elkins and company... they have the makings of a real dilemma on their hands.

Speed up DP? Slow LMP2/LMPC? Some combination of both? And how much will the mods cost the teams (especially galling would be spending money to slow your car down)?

Technically, I think it will have to be some combo as it would be very costly to speed up DP by ~6 seconds/lap (maybe a bit less as the LMP2 go to spec tires for 2014).

Current car counts are strongly tilted towards DP, with ~14 entries/event versus 4 for LMP2 (only two teams and those both occurred at the last minute for 2013). So one would expect DP to see some 'favoritism' in the new specs. OTOH, slowing the LMP2/LMPC cars by much won't be well received by the ALMS fans.

I suppose ideally, LMP2 could have been made the premier class with DP taking the role of the 'new LMP2', but that wasn't gonna fly from the beginning.

Hard to see a win/win situation here.

Some of the same is going to happen in GTLM and GTD as evidenced by Stevenson already planning on departing GTD next season. Perhaps in this case, the USCR bias toward production based cars rather than the 'Prep 2' tube frames originally favored by Grand Am have something to do with it also (what will Turner do with their Prep 2 BMW M3s?).

[ARROWZ46]

Here's a good graphic representation, ignoring the P1's since they go away after 2013:

Andy's layout provides the basic info & looks damn nice as well!!!