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  • its a good thing

    while some here will never be comfy with the presence of a cart fan who comes here wanting to bury all hatchets, doc austin and I have. we will most likely never agree on a few items but do agree on the real ones that make racing great. I am categorized a bit more irl-phobic here than I actually am. I respect your home forum to try my best to not be as critical, sarcastic and upsetting as I have been in the other place.. But then yet ,,I wanna change that as it is the part of the split that hurts all most.. I have many strong feelings about choices made by several cart folks before the split , and my feelings of how it was reacted to by TG seem to me un-productive in an effiecient enough manner.. I Know that is something that is a dividing line, but am I really that insincere as Im called when I try to explain why? . one poster made me feel he thought I was trashing the speedway,,, NEVER,, I will macth my personal respect for that place with any one any where ever. Its the postponement and decline of the indy 500's respect that brings me to question anyone who has jeopardized its place in time.. no matter what the reason,,,,, And to many here , the suprise would be where and who I think caused it,, and now what sustains it..... I see many here thinking that dead cart is a solution.. If that happens,, the product they have supplied to many enthusiastic race goers will be provided by new series of the same folks to the same fans.. There is far more success than failure in that product.. Now if you can try to not become angry wiht my veiws, understand I repsect, watch , and appreciate the irl,, but prefer what cart brings to me more.. I want them both to succeed.. WE need that as niether can do it all. It should start with we fans first, a co-operation and respect ,, I 'm trying,, I'm hoping for the best for both.. It takes an effort on my part as I have been as angry with the veiws here as you have been with mine.. I just think we should at least see if we can change that.. paper
    I love the sport more than I hate the past,

  • #2
    Two series questions, Mr. Paper man, that will help to clarify your position:

    1> Does this mean that you will be nice here, but still trash the IRL at 7G?

    2> How would you have liked the Indy 500 if CART had gotten their way in the mid '90's and turned the Indy 500 into just another one-weekend CART race?
    If you do what you've always done...

    you'll get what you've always gotten.

    Comment


    • #3
      Third question:

      Why should I care?

      Comment


      • #4
        paper,
        Made any more cars lately?? Got pictures?

        Blue
        One driver's "fuel strategy" is another driver's "speed up or we will park you!"

        Comment


        • #5
          I have to agree paper. I read you here then I read you on 7th gear and all I can say is "Two faced". If you want IRL fans to treat you "better", then quit trashing the IRL elsewhere.

          As far as the other (IRL and CART needing each other). That's b.s. The IRL does not need CART. And I disagree with you I think the IRL would be better off with CART gone. Seems to me everytime Pook and company open their mouths they try to trash the IRL (sort of like you on 7th gear).

          [ August 28, 2002: Message edited by: Tara ]
          Tara was the name of our cat.

          Comment


          • #6
            made a bunch of cars... I will continue to question TG ,, but not the league's efforts to provide the excellent racing they offer.. I know many cannot understand how I separate the two,, and thirdly,, making indy a 3day weekend would have never flown ,, and if they had the chance to do that I would have led the pack against it in a articulation that would get me thrown off **** .com. Itwas bullcrap,, they could not have pulled it off any more than any of the power they thought they had..... thats pretty evident now isnt it.. Someday I will be able to express what I think BOTH sides have done wrong in my humble opinion,, when I feel i wont see many of you wish to drive me out of here only to see some ask me to stay here outside the forum... I may actually have an opinion worth considering.. it may suprise many of you who I think the seeds of our division are,, paper
            I love the sport more than I hate the past,

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Tara:
              <STRONG>I have to agree paper. I read you here then I read you on 7th gear and all I can say is "Two faced". If you want IRL fans to treat you "better", then quit trashing the IRL elsewhere.

              As far as the other (IRL and CART needing each other). That's b.s. The IRL does not need CART. And I disagree with you I think the IRL would be better off with CART gone. Seems to me everytime Pook and company open their mouths they try to trash the IRL (sort of like you on 7th gear).

              [ August 28, 2002: Message edited by: Tara ]</STRONG>
              Yep.

              Not room for two (series OR faces).
              "Now, for some of you it doesn't matter. You were born rich and your going to stay rich. But here's my advice to the rest of you: Take dead aim on the rich boys. Get them in the crosshairs and take them down." -- Edward Blume

              Comment


              • #8
                so let me get this straight,, some fans can trash everything cart ,, and any irl thing less than death to cart is wrong?,, but lest not say we have a problem as a fan with a sustained division? promoted on both sides? if you really think tara that the death of cart ends the division then so be it,,, But immediately there will be another series offering the same product. And then will you move your death wish to them? Two faced.. Im trying to keep my critiques of my dis- approval of some issues out of here and become a fan of the irl,, and to avoid the flaming you seem to wish to do,,,,I will not denounce cart to pronounce the irl,, but apparently in your mind that is necessary,, and if you want real face,, that is why folks like you are the split,, you cant as I try to lay down down your anger as I try to lay down mine.. and that is why the sport is in limbo.... Im trying to get along are you with your twofaced remark? I think not,, instead you choose the perpetuate the anger...... paper
                I love the sport more than I hate the past,

                Comment


                • #9
                  Obviously those on both sides of the split have strong opinions. The difference is that most of us aren't making claims of "peace in racing" while perpetuating the argument.

                  Its the postponement and decline of the indy 500's respect that brings me to question anyone who has jeopardized its place in time..
                  Yet you support those who would run the bogUS 500 and devote several years toward bad-mouthing the Indy 500?
                  Center Grove Trojans
                  2008 5A Football State Champs
                  2015 6A Football State Champs
                  2011 Track State Champs

                  Center Grove Jr. Trojans
                  2014, 2015 & 2017 IEFA State Champs

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by BlueStang:
                    <STRONG>paper,
                    Made any more cars lately?? Got pictures?

                    Blue</STRONG>
                    Paper sent me this link this morning. I am amazed that you can do something like this with paper. I can't figure out how he gets the curves right. As I am a heavy modeller, I know what nice work looks like, and this is good work. Someday paper is going to have to show me how he does it. Perhaps when we go on our date.

                    When you see the collection of roadsters he has built, you won't have any doubt of his love for the speedway.
                    http://home.mindspring.com/~padajacaba/papercars/

                    Ah, darn! Well cut and paste the thing. I can't get any URL to work for me.

                    [ August 28, 2002: Message edited by: Doc Austin ]
                    "Is that my *** that I smell burning?" ... Helmet Stogie from "Death spasms of the Mabuchi"

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by paper:
                      <STRONG>so let me get this straight,, some fans can trash everything cart ,, and any irl thing less than death to cart is wrong?,, but lest not say we have a problem as a fan with a sustained division? promoted on both sides? if you really think tara that the death of cart ends the division then so be it,,, But immediately there will be another series offering the same product. And then will you move your death wish to them? Two faced.. Im trying to keep my critiques of my dis- approval of some issues out of here and become a fan of the irl,, and to avoid the flaming you seem to wish to do,,,,I will not denounce cart to pronounce the irl,, but apparently in your mind that is necessary,, and if you want real face,, that is why folks like you are the split,, you cant as I try to lay down down your anger as I try to lay down mine.. and that is why the sport is in limbo.... Im trying to get along are you with your twofaced remark? I think not,, instead you choose the perpetuate the anger...... paper</STRONG>
                      The fact is, what you desire it fundamentally different from what fans like Tara and myself desire.

                      Will another RR series develop if CART should cease to exist?

                      Maybe.

                      Will this series be confused with real Indycar racing?

                      Probably not as much.

                      If CART would merely go its own way, not trash or try to piggy-back the IRL and Indy, then many fans would have no problem with them. I have no problem with other RR series such as ALMS and F1. Don't watch em, but don't see them as directly related to the IRL and Indy.

                      As far as the "peace in racing" aspect - your direction in this pursuit is noble, and I would respect it more if I believed it was genuine. Like Tara states, seeing "peace in racing" in one thread, and then an IRL trash in the next, makes the whole premise a little hard to swallow. You don't have to be an IRL fan - support what you dig (CART), but don't complain when the "olive branch is snapped". I don't want peace between two lame series...I want ONE series, with all the best teams, with a good mix of drivers (Americans, foreigners, whoever), who all want one thing - to win Indy and the IRL championship.

                      Why do Tara and I believe a "peace in racing" proposition is BS? Look no further than the CEO of the organization you support, as well as it's top driver, and it's newest Board member. Where's the peace? If you believe in peace in racing, why would you still support those leaders who are more interested in "war"? Calling for peace, and then supporting Pook and his organization, just doesn't make sense.

                      Comment all you want about the IRL, but people here review 7th gear as well, and your commentary here will be tempered by your history there.

                      I have no anger towards any fan. I respect the hardcore CART fans for their principles, even though I feel they are misguided. We discuss every angle to death on these boards, which is fine, but I'm comfortable that the "side" I support has the trump card, and that it's just a matter of time until the scenario I desire becomes reality. Therefore, there's no sense in getting personally angry with individuals here.

                      And finally, I have enough respect for the CART zealots to never "show up" at 7th Gear pitching my tale. There's no reason in the world for me to post there. My broaching of their site would be the ultimate in disrespect, IMO. Wouldn't do it. That's their house.
                      "Now, for some of you it doesn't matter. You were born rich and your going to stay rich. But here's my advice to the rest of you: Take dead aim on the rich boys. Get them in the crosshairs and take them down." -- Edward Blume

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        [QUOTE]Originally posted by paper:

                        "I will not denounce cart to pronounce the irl,, but apparently in your mind that is necessary,,"

                        No one is going to stop me from enjoying both series. Someone wrote yesterday that not wanting CART to die was a lack of conviction, and I did not address it at the time, because I was not sure it was aimed at me. But, that is BS, too. Anyone who wants to challenge my conviction hasn't seen what I've been through. broken bones, skinned keyster, loss of blood, dead friends, but I could never force myself to walk away from the sport. Too much conviction.

                        Paper and I share the conviction of loving racing. We don't need any more than that to enjoy the sport. And we are going to do it together real soon. It might be sprint cars. It might be sportscars. It might be the Miami CART race. Heck, we may go to Indy.

                        CART is full of alot of wonderful people from the drivers (though there will be some disagreement on who is and isn't wonderful) through the ranks of mechanics and the rest of the people who make their living there.
                        Just because pook says something you don't like doesn't mean everyone in ther series is evil. Death to CART is only going to flood the IRL with alot of unemployed talent, which will include alot of them furrin drivers. Be careful what you ask for.

                        And as the guy who has rode paper and dogged him for his whole time here, I say get off the guy's back. He is making an effort to become an IRL fan. If we continue to treat CART fans this way, we can continue to look up in the stands and see no one home, or more precisely, everyone stays home.

                        As long as Paper wants to make an effort to enjoy the IRL, let's welcome him here.

                        [ August 28, 2002: Message edited by: Doc Austin ]
                        "Is that my *** that I smell burning?" ... Helmet Stogie from "Death spasms of the Mabuchi"

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          thanx doc.. they are much nicer in person.. Im beyond glad for our contact, and moreso we live close enough to meet easily.. aside from that ,, I am leaving here but taking with the few friends I have made.. I do not need what happens here as I try to start a attempt to bridge a gap we all have perpetuated ,, to the few here who believe me I am forever grateful you understand my efforts to articulate we should all change our ways... to the TD and taras of this forum who endlessly think something is gained by trying to malign me as I try to inspire hacthet burying,, you win,,, mire yourselves in your rut of anger,,, I choose to get over it,, you dont... and for all have e-mailed me to stay , come back and wished me well,, I am forever thankful,, I will now continue without the insults.. if you wish to e-mail,, be as my freind , and we will have a better relationship than I will be allowed here..... And I will contunue to campaign for peace in racing,,, but in another place,,, Alot of anger has left there tho some remains ,, Im working on that.. sorry some of you cant do the same... DOc thanx for contacting me ,,, it means alot to me,,,,,, paper
                          I love the sport more than I hate the past,

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Paper, if you aren't comfortable with some of the attitude here, the nostalgia forum is pretty cool. All the infighting is left behind there and it's just racing talk. As the rhetoric and politics heat up here, I find myself more interested in racing's history when race fans didn't have a reason to fight over nothing.

                            My plan, which will be difficult, is to just talk racing here. I tried like he77 to just talk racing, but anything related to on track action just slips off the page in less than a day. Eventually, if you don't get in the fight, there are no threads for you to visit. Unless, of course, only one key works on you computer, the one between G and J.

                            And I know I am in for a collossal trashing because I'de rather be friends with paper than be his enemy. Bring it on and make fools out of yourselves.

                            This doesn't mean I won't poke fun at everyone in CART because this is still an IRL board and everyone can appreciate it.
                            But expect some fun poked at the IRL, TG and even some of you. comedy is toooooooooo
                            sweeeeeeet, so expect plenty of it.

                            And don't forget about the fish stories. I've only told about 50 of them, so there are about 500 more left to share.
                            "Is that my *** that I smell burning?" ... Helmet Stogie from "Death spasms of the Mabuchi"

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Is this turning into another "group hug" thread...?

                              Comment

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