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  • Tony Johns Commentary

    Not really groundbreaking thought, but see what you think. And please discuss nicely.

    Click here
    "If TF members were given solid gold cars, some would complain about the color." - stnkypete

  • #2
    "IRL has network television exposure, a sensible cost-containment package, an easily policed and affordable engine-and-chassis formula, and -- most importantly -- the Indianapolis 500. "

    He understands the basics...most importantly...nothing else matters in U.S. open wheel racing...

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by rev-ed:
      <STRONG>Not really groundbreaking thought, but see what you think. And please discuss nicely.

      Click here</STRONG>
      There's that "elitist" word again
      Gary Crossno

      Comment


      • #4
        This is like blaming the blades of grass for being in the way when the elephants stampede.
        Peter Olivola ([email protected])
        "Too dumb for opera
        too smart for NASCAR"

        Comment


        • #5
          Ok Rev, I'll discuss nicely. I disagree with the article.

          If the IRL allows CART to come in and use their formula. Allows CART to suck off the Indy 500 again, until they are strong again. It sets itself up for trouble.

          Imagine 5 years from now. CART is using IRL equipment, engine/chassis/tire suppliers..the Indy car name...etc. There will be nothing stopping the people in CART from making demands again. Does the IRL want that? Nope.

          There is some seperation between CART and the IRL today. A different formula. A different reason for being. Foreign vs. domestic. Road/Street racing vs Oval. And to a smaller degree a seperation of name. (Not as much as I want, because some still refer to CART as Indy car, but the seperation has grown the past 5-6 years). Any marriage will cloud the differences again.

          Sorry, but the IRL needs to be "married" to CART like I need a hole in my head.

          Not saying the IRL should put down CART or try to abuse them. And from what I have seen, they have done neither. But IF CART is to survive, they need to do it on their own two feet, not leaning on the IRL and if they are to fail, well so be it.

          I like road racing, I follow Formula 1 and use to follow CanAm. If CART fails I would be happy to see an IRL road/street series using IRL equipment and rules. But CART sucked off of Indy for years, then decided they did not need it, and has repeatedly tried to destroy the IRL and hurt Indy. I have no desire to see this management team connected to the IRL in any shape or form.

          Let CART live or die by their own means. Likewise let the IRL do the same. No marriage, no matter how "loose" it is.

          [ January 21, 2002: Message edited by: Tara ]
          Tara was the name of our cat.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Tara:
            <STRONG>Ok Rev, I'll discuss nicely. I disagree with the article.

            If the IRL allows CART to come in and use their formula. Allows CART to suck off the Indy 500 again, until they are strong again. It sets itself up for trouble.

            Imagine 5 years from now. CART is using IRL equipment, engine/chassis/tire suppliers..the Indy car name...etc. There will be nothing stopping the people in CART from making demands again. Does the IRL want that? Nope.

            There is some seperation between CART and the IRL today. A different formula. A different reason for being. Foreign vs. domestic. Road/Street racing vs Oval. And to a smaller degree a seperation of name. (Not as much as I want, because some still refer to CART as Indy car, but the seperation has grown the past 5-6 years). Any marriage will cloud the differences again.

            Sorry, but the IRL needs to be "married" to CART like I need a hole in my head.

            Not saying the IRL should put down CART or try to abuse them. And from what I have seen, they have done neither. But IF CART is to survive, they need to do it on their own two feet, not leaning on the IRL and if they are to fail, well so be it.

            I like road racing, I follow Formula 1 and use to follow CanAm. If CART fails I would be happy to see an IRL road/street series using IRL equipment and rules. But CART sucked off of Indy for years, then decided they did not need it, and has repeatedly tried to destroy the IRL and hurt Indy. I have no desire to see this management team connected to the IRL in any shape or form.

            Let CART live or die by their own means. Likewise let the IRL do the same. No marriage, no matter how "loose" it is.

            [ January 21, 2002: Message edited by: Tara ]</STRONG>
            Hear, hear. Well said. Er, make that written

            [ January 21, 2002: Message edited by: BigFig ]
            Gary Crossno

            Comment


            • #7
              Tara kicked azz with that one
              "IRL" ... what IS that anyway?

              J. Michael Ringham
              Vice President, Marketing
              IndyCar® Series Indy Pro Series

              www.jonescams.com yankeegoback.com

              Comment


              • #8
                I agree with Howard! As usual Peter O is in the wrong place.

                Folks, it has always been about IMS and the Indy 500, everything else is the ways and means of getting there! I think I have just come up with a new signature line!

                [ January 21, 2002: Message edited by: Mackie ]

                Comment


                • #9
                  While I appreciate Tara's statement of her need for trephining, I think this is pretty silly stuff. to put it in perspective look at the whole paragraph instead of the selective bit the HD posted:

                  <STRONG>
                  Call me naive, but I believe that between CART and IRL there is the potential for the best motorsports product in the world. CART has the better drivers and teams and the most diverse and challenging collection of venues around. IRL has network television exposure, asensible cost-containment package, an easily policed and affordable engine-and-chassis formula, and -- most importantly -- the Indianapolis 500. Together, this recipe had open-wheel racing at the pinnacle of auto racing excellence... prior to 1995. </STRONG>
                  You see Tony John's does get it. Little was broken prior to TG 'fixing' OW racing and 6 years later, with the exception of Penske, CART still has the best teams, the best drivers, and the most varied venues.

                  The IRL has --- well the IRL has the Indy 500. It was what it started with and it is what TG continues to try to use to bludgeon the rest of OW racing to his will.

                  Tony Johns does get it and yes, Tara you do need to have that trephining done ASAP.
                  Sifaka

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    poor sif, you will never get it. What the IRL has brought to the american open wheel fans that we didn't have in 1995 is a top open wheel oval series that is based on american open wheel racing. The Indy 500 is now the cornerstone of a series with the same roots and values of its cornerstone event, what a novel idea that is.
                    "IRL" ... what IS that anyway?

                    J. Michael Ringham
                    Vice President, Marketing
                    IndyCar® Series Indy Pro Series

                    www.jonescams.com yankeegoback.com

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Other than the Indy 500, the jury is still out on whether or not the market based on local oval track racing is bigger than the market CART has. So far, there isn't much to recommend it. Attendance doesn't indicate much. The TV audience indicates less.

                      Your statement of faith is commendable, Cammie, but for now, it's just that. A statement of faith only.

                      Originally posted by CamKing:
                      <STRONG>poor sif, you will never get it. What the IRL has brought to the american open wheel fans that we didn't have in 1995 is a top open wheel oval series that is based on american open wheel racing. The Indy 500 is now the cornerstone of a series with the same roots and values of its cornerstone event, what a novel idea that is.</STRONG>
                      Peter Olivola ([email protected])
                      "Too dumb for opera
                      too smart for NASCAR"

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by CamKing:
                        <STRONG>poor sif, you will never get it. What the IRL has brought to the american open wheel fans that we didn't have in 1995 is a top open wheel oval series that is based on american open wheel racing. The Indy 500 is now the cornerstone of a series with the same roots and values of its cornerstone event, what a novel idea that is.</STRONG>
                        I guess I plan on continuing to not get it, just like Tony Johns, apparently doesn't get it in your book.

                        AFAIK all CART ovals, plus Indy were run in the US prior to 1996. I guess that would make them ovals based on American OVAL racing. The difference between those ovals and the IRL ovals is that those were oval races that packed them in. Phoenix was fans up into the hills and packed grandstands, Michigan was the next biggest race to Indy. Nazareth more than paid its way. As Tony Johns sez"
                        "Together, this recipe had open-wheel racing at the pinnacle of auto racing excellence... prior to 1995. "
                        Now we have more OW oval venues than ever and the vast majority of them don't draw squat for an audience. Sure in the IRLspeak having 20K at Phoenix is a sign of progress, as is 25K at Homestead, as will be 30k at Michigan.

                        I may not understand the delicate irony embedded in Tony George's salvation of OW racing, but then I think you are missing a bit of it too.

                        When there is one OW series that races the most demanding range of tracks,including great ovals, Road courses, and yes, some street courses then America will once again have a racing series worthy of being the best in the world. Till then we'll continue to muddle along with what we've got. At the moment it means a whole lot more racing than we had before. I guess that's a good thing.
                        Sifaka

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Trephining? Did Sif really say trephining? Rev, you make him stop that right now. Us "challenged" posters don't like them thar kinds of words Now what did I do with that dictionary
                          SENسR MODERATOR......

                          "Better To Be Judged By Twelve Than Carried By Six"
                          " Only Those Who Will Risk Going Too Far....Can Possibly Find Out How Far One Can Go "...T.S. Elliot....

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                          • #14
                            The split didn't drive me to nascar. I was already there. I used to like Indy racing and nascar, plus a bunch of others too. But CART and the direction they were taking did serve to lessen my interested in Indy cars considerably. It took some time, a little here and a little there, but eventually Indy racing, especially away from Indy was just a small blip on my screen. And while I did keep an eye on CART, most of what they did was not of interest to me. What brought me back? Of course it was the IRL. And I am sure glad. Is the IRL perfect? Hardly. But it does provide some of the best racing that I have ever seen and I've seen a bunch of them. Did I leave nascar to comeback to Indy cars? No but the IRL is my favorite series now. No, the split didn't have anything to do with me leaving, but it did play a major role in my return.
                            Some people will do nearly anything in order to be able to not do anything.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              The author openly admits he's a Troy-based series fan. Figures. So many red flags have been raised since 1995 that sometimes I think I'm in China.

                              His unification theory, of course, is the only correct way his favorite series will survive. I just think it's sad that he, like others, appears to be begging almost as much (and as shamelessly) as my dog Bear at the back door when it's really cold outside.

                              Here's the only way to solve the malaise. Dissolve the failed public venture. Travel to 16th & Georgetown. Sign up. Everyone who is qualified is welcome, and you know that.

                              Comment

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