What if TG sat down with Don Panoz?

[ChrisB]

(I'm not sure if this should be in the IRL or splitsville forum, so I'll let the mods decide)

What if TG sat down with Don Panoz to brainstorm and work stuff out? There's 3 possible outcomes (well, the 4th is that nothing happens)

1. An IRL version of the DP07. AFAIK the chassis is designed with ovals in mind, it would mainly require mods to hold the Honda engine. The intention is "quasi-merger" in that CCWS and IRL could reasonably show up for each others races, just mainly swap out Coz and Honda motors.

2. An OW version of the Panoz LMP900 roadster. That car is designed to use a 6.0L engine, so a 5.7L USAC/Nascar-style motor might be a possibility. This is the fabled "modern Indy roadster" that gets talked about here once in a while. (It also kills any talk of IRL/CCWS merger because both would no longer be using RE formula cars)

3. A association with ALMS. The 500 jettisons openwheelers and becomes a sportscar oval race and essentially a part of the ALMS schedule. The 2 biggests races in the world...Indy and LeMans... would both be sportscar races. Ironically, this would be a return to a "variety of engines and chassis" that some want Indy to get back to. (Again, it also kills any talk of IRL/CCWS merger because both would no longer be using RE formula cars)

Comments anyone?

[BSJracing]

(I'm not sure if this should be in the IRL or splitsville forum, so I'll let the mods decide)


3. A association with ALMS. The 500 jettisons openwheelers and becomes a sportscar oval race and essentially a part of the ALMS schedule. The 2 biggests races in the world...Indy and LeMans... would both be sportscar races.

Comments anyone?

First two points were interesting and Valid, then you brought this crock of sacrelige up.

[SportscarBruce]

I wouldn't support the third option.

[brickyard1911]

1. Maybe

2. Maybe

3. Are you nuts?

[indynut]

I think so! After all, Panoz may not even be in the IRL next season. Right now, it looks like everyone is trying to get their hands on some Dallaras!

[Doc Austin]

I'de try to get Tony and Don to run the IRL cars at Road Atlanta on the Sunday after the Petite LeMans. Since the IRL is already done with it's season by then, maybe even find an equivilency formula and have a big non-championship grudge race with the champcars. Tell me that one wouldn't generate some interest.

Since the IRL guys would already be there, it wouldn't hurt to put some of the better road racers in sportscars the day before, and maybe make a car or two available for some of the top sportscar guys on Sunday. Tony's got the money, so put up a stupidly huge purse, say $5 mil to win. The cars and drivers would come out of the woodwork for an event like that and it would probably be an instant classic. It would also go a long way towards promoting some healing too.

[Andrew Longman]

Only #1 is viable and likely because I suspect the remaining IRL owners (and possibly some CCWS owners) will ask for it and sooner or later it will be the only way TG gets 33 cars in May.

Ironic too because according to this TG only wanted to coexist/not compete with CART. If he does #1 it will amount to the same thing.

http://indymotorspeedway.com/95letter.htm

[Lemming51]

Peaceful coexist w/CART (now CCWS) is no longer relevant.

(4) Clean-sheet new car. Whether FE & no wings, or winged RE, I don't care. But it has to be less expensive, fast, safe, and less expensive. There is no reason car + engine has to be more than $150,000.

[mbilek]

I personally saw TG and DP sit down together about four or five years ago. I posted about it in this forum. If someone can dig through the messages, maybe they can find it.

I have no idea what they talked about, but whatever it was I am sure its over by now.

markbilek

[jetdoc]

Right now, it looks like everyone is trying to get their hands on some Dallaras!

Only reason for that Indynut is the fact that they've found that the Dallara formula works the best with the Honda engines.

[Andrew Longman]

Peaceful coexist w/CART (now CCWS) is no longer relevant.

(4) Clean-sheet new car. Whether FE & no wings, or winged RE, I don't care. But it has to be less expensive, fast, safe, and less expensive. There is no reason car + engine has to be more than $150,000.

Cost is criticial and there is some optimal number, but I don't know what it is.

They could make it cheap enough for you or me to drive, but will anyone watch? I doubt 400,000 will want to watch lawnmowers run the Indy let alone the entire series.

The IRL has to raise the value of running the series as well. Certainly Argent is getting their money's worth (even if they did not re-up at the Glen) but others don't compare as well.

The greatest value for teams would come from running both series, or some combination there of. If things continue as is, arguably only doing that will produce sufficient value.

As for peaceful coexistence, I don't think it ever made sense and if TG actually thought so he was either delusional or a very bad business person. Businesses compete. That's what they do. If he thought CART would just let him create a competing series and see their investment dwindle, he was nuts.

But now he may not have a choice. Both series may not have a choice. Rivals join all the time in order to survive. See Verizon/MCI, Sprint/Nextel, BristolMyersSquibb, DaimlerChrysler, GlaxoSmithKlein, AA/TWA...

[Turn13]

As for peaceful coexistence, I don't think it ever made sense and if TG actually thought so he was either delusional or a very bad business person.

I'd say the boycott and running the US 500 was even more delusional and worse business, then.

Do you think that TG may have perceived that CART was trying to compete with IMS? Think about it - weren't they founded in order to leverage TV revenue and other funds from the Indianapolis 500?

A disingenuous "peaceful coexistence" then, by your admission, would seem to have been the untenable situation that necessitated the Split, would it not?

What support is there for TG to have continued to trust the organization whose spirit and mentality marked its existence with special interest conflicts, infighting, backbiting, indecision, lawsuits, failed partnerships, bankruptcy, and now the prolonged extension of acrimony and crappy behavior?

[indyrjc]

As long as Grand Am is owned by the France family and TG runs most of his IRL races on France (ISC) run tracks not much would come of TG and Don Panoz getting together. It might be a good idea but.....

[ChrisB]

What support is there for TG to have continued to trust...

T13, if TG were to go with option #1, he mainly has to trust that Don Panoz will make a version of the DP07 that is compatible with what the 500 wants. I think Don Panoz is someone who can be trusted. In fact, by going with the DP07 it somewhat puts Don Panoz in the position of being the mediator as far as IRL/CCWS chassis go.

But if the IRL wants to get away from RE formula cars, Don Panoz also has some experience with modern roadsters and sportscars too!

[Andrew Longman]

I'd say the boycott and running the US 500 was even more delusional and worse business, then.

Do you think that TG may have perceived that CART was trying to compete with IMS? Think about it - weren't they founded in order to leverage TV revenue and other funds from the Indianapolis 500?

A disingenuous "peaceful coexistence" then, by your admission, would seem to have been the untenable situation that necessitated the Split, would it not?

What support is there for TG to have continued to trust the organization whose spirit and mentality marked its existence with special interest conflicts, infighting, backbiting, indecision, lawsuits, failed partnerships, bankruptcy, and now the prolonged extension of acrimony and crappy behavior?

The thread is about chassis designs and whether it makes sense to use a common platform. 51 said we are beyond the point of coexistence. I said the choice may be out of everyone's hands and besides peace coexistance is what TG said himself he wanted in his 1995 letter to the Star. How did we get to the US 500?

FWIW I have a hard time believing TG ever wanted peaceful coexistance. I just don't see how he could ever have thought that possible. He had to have something else in mind but I can't say what it was. I'm no huge fan of CARTs 1990s leadership and they certainly made a lot of mistakes, many of which TG couldn't have liked, but of course they were not going to just sit there and watch anyone set up a competing business.

Call it a power play on both sides, or not. But people will act to protect their interests, even if they don't always act wisely.