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  • No conclusive evidence

    http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dl...510290432/1052

  • #2
    As for Issue #1...And Kanaan...

    Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm..... Did they look at telemetry or even a replay!?!?!



    My sig says it all below on Issue #2

    Camp and Brew Did Not Make Indianapolis
    It's Indianapolis that made Camp and Brew what it is.

    Comment


    • #3
      BS!!!
      I'm a cool-aid drinker but not that much.
      "We are all speeding toward our deaths at 60 minutes an hour." Sid Collins on Race Day, 1964

      Comment


      • #4
        What a joke! The IRL just took a huge plunge down the credibiltiy meter. I guess they don't want to be considered a major league sport :mad:
        "Promote what you love instead of bashing what you hate."

        2018 Indianapolis 500 photo gallery

        2018 Long Beach Grand Prix photo gallery

        2017 Indianapolis 500 photo gallery

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        • #5
          I thought hitting the pit-lane limiter at speed would shred your gearbox? Apparently not.

          Oh well, now for the IRL to investigate the punch/poke contreversy.

          They should call in Matlock! He'll get to the bottom of this.
          It's impossible, that's sure. So let's start working.- Phillipe Petit

          Talent borrows, Genius steals. - Pablo Picasso

          Ah, there's nothing more exciting than science. You get all the fun of sitting still, being quiet, writing down numbers, paying attention... Science has it all.

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          • #6
            Bruce..........

            Denny.......

            Get over it.
            "Is that my *** that I smell burning?" ... Helmet Stogie from "Death spasms of the Mabuchi"

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Doc Austin
              Bruce..........

              Denny.......

              Get over it.



              So fixed outcomes to races satisfy you?

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Doc Austin
                Bruce..........

                Denny.......

                Get over it.
                What he said.

                Besides: Who cares, does it really matter?

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Doc Austin
                  Bruce..........

                  Denny.......

                  Get over it.
                  Can't inprove on what he said.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Guess I don't consider it a "Fixed Race" but more of one where one teammate gave the win to another teammate.

                    Do I like it...NO.

                    Do I wish the IRL had put more into the investigation...Yes.

                    Will it change the way I view the sport...No (But Yes to how I'll view AGR differently.)

                    My guess: The IRL wanted to get on with the off-season and this is certainly a smaller issue that say, the Helio/Paul Tracy pass at INDY.

                    Now, the "Poke Heard Round the World"?
                    THAT is a of utmost importance.



                    Camp and Brew Did Not Make Indianapolis
                    It's Indianapolis that made Camp and Brew what it is.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by TommyDaComic
                      Guess I don't consider it a "Fixed Race" but more of one where one teammate gave the win to another teammate.

                      Do I like it...NO.

                      Do I wish the IRL had put more into the investigation...Yes.

                      Will it change the way I view the sport...No (But Yes to how I'll view AGR differently.)
                      I agree.

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                      • #12
                        Outcome:

                        Did it happen? Maybe, but we can't be sure.
                        Will it happen again? Not a chance.

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                        • #13
                          Trackdunce had Ron Capps on today and there was much discussion on big teams giving in for teammates benefit. Capps explained that the NHRA is still Manoamano. At Indy his teammate Whit Bazemore whipped him in the first round and also how Shumacher's team had done similar things. A win still means something in the NHRA.

                          Also Trackdunce tried to belittle the IRL's impending doom and the reduced schedule and the CCWS surge. Capps sounded like a big IRL fan.
                          Capps came back with several of his buddies work on IRL teams and they are very excited.

                          Must be the ones that haven't been laid off yet... (WWHW)




                          What Would Howard Write (WWHW)
                          Natural Born Cynic

                          What irks me (maybe its too soon for the truth), DW was a 16-oval WIN specialist, yet the vast majority those boohooing for him, hardcarders & fans, alike are the same ones trying to kill anything with more than 9 deg banking & 4 corners, where Dan ultimately made his home...

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Ezra
                            So fixed outcomes to races satisfy you?
                            It doesn't bother me enough to be as outraged as some people seem to be. Then again, I've studied the sport for alot of years.......and this sort of thing has happened all the time.

                            I remember a few years ago at Adelaide the McLarens had such an advantage the only way they could lose would be to take each other out. McLaren drivers Mika Hakkinen and David Coulthard had a gentleman's agreement that whomever lead into the first turn would win the race. Pretty simple. Get a good start, beat your teammate into the first turn and then cruise home.

                            Mika won the agreement by leading into the first turn, so it was apparently settled. The team blew Mika's last pitstop and David emerged into the lead. With just a handful of laps left David pulled over and let Mika win, just like they had agreed, and David did this even though they had not forseen the racing unfolding this way.

                            Mika wasn't upset. Neither was David. Ron Dennis was happy his drivers didn't run each other into the ground and ruin a sure one-two finish.

                            At the time I was posting on an international motorsports forum, and was one of very few Americans, so you can guess who was really raising the biggest stink. That's right, it was people who were stupid enough to wager money on motorsports. Oh, there was talk of an FIA tribunal and European commonwealth investigations and even Interpol was talking about getting involved.

                            Yep. Motorsports doesn't have enough problems without catering to the gambling community and it's influences. That would turn it into at least as honest of a sport as boxing, now wouldn't it?

                            There was the Bruce and Denny show, the Mark and George show and even the Gordo and Wally show. Heck, in the USAC championship trail days of 67, 68, we even had guys jumping out of their cars and giving them to other drivers in the middle of the race so they could help them out in the championship battle. That was not only race fixing, but that was deliberate interference with the natural order of the championship. I don't remember anyone complaining then except for the guys who lost.

                            Can anyone count the times "Lil B*tch Barrechello" (a name that dave despain coined) rolled over for schuey? How about the 1966 LeMans snafu where team orders of a photo finish screwed Lloyd ruby out of winning the race, as if that guy didn't get screwed enough at Indy.

                            Now, I'm not surprised that some people who have never had to deal with a teammate don't understand the concept of teamwork for the sake of the team. Whatever the drivers want to do within the rules to help their teammates is not only ok with me, but it's jkust the smart way to keep your teammate and the rest of the team on your side. You know, you are on the same team..........aren't you?

                            You share setups. you share lines and braking reference points. You tell your teammate that they guy in the yellow car is a clown and to watch out for him. You have dinner with him, you play pranks on him. You're in it together, and even if you don't like it, you're going to have better results if you help the guy because you need the help too.

                            Where it gets way out of hand for me is when you have incidents like 1996 at Indy when Salazar pushed Davey Jones into the pitwall to help his teammate. And then there was Dario holding up Helio to help Paul in, IIRC, 2002.

                            Your teammate not only has to be your biggest rival, but he has to be your best friend too. You beat him every time you can, but you help him at every turn too. Otherwise you end up with Alain taking aim on Ayrton and Nelson jamming a wheel into Nigel. Or worse, it carries over into the next, and then the next race when you end up with two different teams in the same paddock space, yours, and the guy who is your new enemy, your teammate.

                            Want to know how that manifested itself at Ferrari? Prost got all the mechanics on his side and they swapped numbers on the cars so Prost ended up with Nigel's car, and no one told Nigel! Now, you can help your teammate or you can screw him and expect to get the same thing right back, and maybe even worse.

                            No, I don't suppose you have to give your teammate a win, but this one meant so much to Dario that you can be sure Tony will get the favor returned when he needs it the most. I'm sure that's alot more important to the men who are actually competing than what any of us thinks about it.
                            "Is that my *** that I smell burning?" ... Helmet Stogie from "Death spasms of the Mabuchi"

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Doc Austin
                              It doesn't bother me enough to be as outraged as some people seem to be. Then again, I've studied the sport for alot of years.......and this sort of thing has happened all the time.

                              I remember a few years ago at Adelaide...
                              At where???

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