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  • yes/no

    since i said it would be better to have a poll on the engine thing here it is. please don't feel you have to comment or justify your position; but you certainly may if you wish to re-hash this all again......

    simply yes or no

    should the IRL have the current "closed" leased engine program or have a rule/spec book program that allows for independent builders to assemble approved components?
    201
    closed
    10.45%
    21
    open
    89.55%
    180

    The poll is expired.

    returning to the days of ignorant bliss..

  • #2
    We had manufacturer participation before with open, rebuildable engines. Why does evrybody at IMS seem to think it won't work now.

    If Honda bolts, they won't have the Honda Money anyway. Although it looks like Honda isn't going anywhere. Only committed to supplying 33 cars for Indy 500, so how do the teams #34, #35, #36 etc. get an engine to try to make the field?
    Have attended: Indy 500 (34), Belle Island (3), Kentucky (4), St Pete (3), Homestead (1), Texas (2) Michigan (5), Cleveland (3), Iowa (4), Chicagoland (5), IRP (2), Eldora (3)...

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by damilt
      We had manufacturer participation before with open, rebuildable engines. Why does evrybody at IMS seem to think it won't work now.

      If Honda bolts, they won't have the Honda Money anyway. Although it looks like Honda isn't going anywhere. Only committed to supplying 33 cars for Indy 500, so how do the teams #34, #35, #36 etc. get an engine to try to make the field?
      They don't. There's just four days of qualifications where 33 cars make the field in whatever order they qualify, provided no one is "bumped" on days 1, 2 and 3.

      Unless, of course, both HPD and Ilmor build their own version of "Honda" engines. Then you have the Honda Factory vs. the Honda Ilmors, and maybe some real, traditional bumping.
      "I didn't hear a single comment about airboxes, "carbashians", or how terrible the car looked. I did see dozens and dozens of little kids in awe of the speed and how cool the cars looked. We should learn from our children."
      --Danny Noonan

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      • #4
        Why does evrybody at IMS seem to think it won't work now.
        Because Honda said they won't do it that way (at least when they first came in) and they call the shots.

        Alternative answer: Because teams would now claim everyone else (or at least Foyt) was getting favorable treatment by the officials in charge of compliance. So you'd get the same whining about unfair advantages without Honda's money.

        It would work. But TG's nose is up Honda's tailpipe.
        Got to watch out for those Libertarians - they want to take over the government and leave everyone alone!

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        • #5
          OPEN.
          I reiterate:
          OPEN.
          And in case that didn't make enough of an impact:
          OPEN.
          But lest you be confused:
          OPEN.
          You've worked so hard on the kidney. Very special -- the kidney has a very special place in the heart. It's an incredible thing. Donald John Trump

          Brian's Wish * Jason Foundation

          Comment


          • #6
            In the heyday of "run what you brung" how many cars were powered by offenhauser tubo?

            Badges?!?!?! WE DON'T NEED NO STINKING BADGES!!!!
            For the record, I never had a problem with CART in 1995. Its when they turned beligerant twards IMS and their fans for supporting the IRL that turned me off them.

            Comment


            • #7
              As of 4:26 p.m. Gomer, NINETY-ONE PERCENT IN FAVOR OF OPEN ENGINES.

              My faith in this place is restored.
              "I didn't hear a single comment about airboxes, "carbashians", or how terrible the car looked. I did see dozens and dozens of little kids in awe of the speed and how cool the cars looked. We should learn from our children."
              --Danny Noonan

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Coyote
                Because Honda said they won't do it that way (at least when they first came in) and they call the shots.

                Alternative answer: Because teams would now claim everyone else (or at least Foyt) was getting favorable treatment by the officials in charge of compliance. So you'd get the same whining about unfair advantages without Honda's money.

                It would work. But TG's nose is up Honda's tailpipe.
                I feel it is a toss up in some ways.

                And Foyt, as a prime example, made quite a name for himself over the years because of "getting favorable treatment by the officials in charge of compliance" with his extra 50 or so hoss power and is not above sneaking and cheating again given the slightst opportunity.

                I am in favor of closed engine packages. The hind teat teams can't stay on even footing with affluent teams no matter how you pamper them. But that is generally the case regardless of the engine program.

                Keep them closed up until George can come up with a equitable method of policing the situation. Not even sure it would pan out then either as there will inevitably be the oil bombs running around about like the Olds "grenades" that people had to put up with for a while.

                We saw very few engine related DNF's this year and several teams got some great experience in setting up cars to the very limits of their ability to function on the tracks. And then some will never learn.

                Comment


                • #9
                  i shouldn't

                  Originally posted by Benson477
                  I feel it is a toss up in some ways.

                  And Foyt, as a prime example, made quite a name for himself over the years because of "getting favorable treatment by the officials in charge of compliance" with his extra 50 or so hoss power and is not above sneaking and cheating again given the slightst opportunity.

                  I am in favor of closed engine packages. The hind teat teams can't stay on even footing with affluent teams no matter how you pamper them. But that is generally the case regardless of the engine program.

                  Keep them closed up until George can come up with a equitable method of policing the situation. Not even sure it would pan out then either as there will inevitably be the oil bombs running around about like the Olds "grenades" that people had to put up with for a while.

                  We saw very few engine related DNF's this year and several teams got some great experience in setting up cars to the very limits of their ability to function on the tracks. And then some will never learn.
                  first of all i shouldn't do this, but i guess i will...........

                  i was very distressed at the early engine reliability question. given almost no time for any creditable R & D, there was actually a cottage industry that was developed for: "DIAPERS" well that didn't last long...............

                  it's always been a reliablility question in my humble opinion (IMHO)(LOL); and that issue was pretty much answered before the rules allowing the major engine mfg's to take over..........

                  this isn't drag racing where you can make an engine scream for 1/4 mile, then change it for the next pass. there were some very engine talented "assemblers" out there before toyota and honda entered into this series. reliability was not a question by then..................

                  i choose not to respond to the "favorable treatment" and hind teat comments.

                  thank you for replying to the poll...........

                  like i wrote, i shouldn't........
                  returning to the days of ignorant bliss..

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by R22
                    first of all i shouldn't do this, but i guess i will...........

                    i was very distressed at the early engine reliability question. given almost no time for any creditable R & D, there was actually a cottage industry that was developed for: "DIAPERS" well that didn't last long...............

                    it's always been a reliablility question in my humble opinion (IMHO)(LOL); and that issue was pretty much answered before the rules allowing the major engine mfg's to take over..........

                    this isn't drag racing where you can make an engine scream for 1/4 mile, then change it for the next pass. there were some very engine talented "assemblers" out there before toyota and honda entered into this series. reliability was not a question by then..................

                    i choose not to respond to the "favorable treatment" and hind teat comments.

                    thank you for replying to the poll...........

                    like i wrote, i shouldn't........
                    Thanks, that was right generous and condescending of you.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Now how about this:

                      Leased/closed but in the front

                      vs. open but in the rear.
                      Randy

                      "Danica has earned her equipment and her opportunity. It didn't just materialize out of the air. She earned it one piece at a time, starting at 10 years old." Mark Martin

                      "Life does not imitate art. It imitates bad television." Unidentified TV Talking Head.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Benson477
                        .......... and condescending of you.
                        wow i've been accused of several things but never that!!

                        i like radny's idea that would really stir things up!

                        great for the off season. obviously i like the open policy; but, would also prefer a safe means of the front engined machines.........

                        which would i choose?????

                        thankfully the choice will be made for me so i can complain some more.
                        returning to the days of ignorant bliss..

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          There are just not enough teams that are financially competitive to keep multiple engine manufacturers interested.

                          The front engine thing is amusing to reminesce about but not anything to be seriously considered when discussing a modern day series that participates in "the most famous racing event in the world."

                          Yep, there are folks who are hired just to make these all important decisions.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            My emotions say open but the issues are complex, so at this juncture I'm undecided. The sport of Open Wheel is so wounded (on both sides of the fence) that I'm leaning to No if Honda does something worthwhile towards stabilizing the situation. Call it buttkissing if you like but I wouldn't revolt against the sole remaining factory sponsor in ICS. Then again I'ld like to see open competition among indepentent builders....undecided

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              It's Honda only till 09 unless the IRL can attract another manufacturer, Honda has stated on numerous occasions that they are only interested in competing against another manufacturer(s). I'm sure Cosworth would love $$ for someone to badge their engine.

                              Comment

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