Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Simona!!

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #91
    Originally posted by flatlander_48 View Post

    Sorry, you ask silly questions. See message #90.
    Okay. I've looked at it.

    "I would really like to go to NASCAR. I really enjoy NASCAR and if I could be there in a couple of years that's where I'd want to be." - Jeff Gordon (after testing a Formula Super Vee)

    Comment


    • #92
      Originally posted by flatlander_48 View Post

      You are forgetting Tatiana Calderone in F2 this year and an Alfa Romeo test driver.
      I looked her up. 26 years old, highest finish in 22 F2 races this year was 13th. No championship points, 22nd in the drivers standings.

      Not a lot of promise there.
      The Ayn Rand of Indycar

      No one had to badge the Offy.

      Crapping all over threads since 2000.

      Comment


      • #93
        Originally posted by DaveL View Post

        I looked her up. 26 years old, highest finish in 22 F2 races this year was 13th. No championship points, 22nd in the drivers standings.

        Not a lot of promise there.
        Tatiana is another example of a female driver getting attention more for being female than for being good. She was pretty good in Star Mazda back in 2011, but she hasn't done much since.

        As I alluded to earlier in this conversation, the biggest obstacle to a woman someday winning races and championships in IndyCar, Formula One, or any other top level racing series is that there aren't enough girls and young women trying to compete, and the ones that are aren't making the inroads they need to, for whatever reason. Be it talent, funding, the right situation or some combination of the three.
        “America is all about speed. Hot, nasty, badass speed.” - Eleanor Roosevelt

        Comment


        • #94
          Originally posted by Sweaty Teddy View Post

          Tatiana is another example of a female driver getting attention more for being female than for being good.

          Is she a Alfa Romeo test driver in the same way Simona was a Sauber test driver? Sauber's commitment was inexpensive, just a couple of Polo shirts.


          Comment


          • #95
            Originally posted by rrrr View Post


            Is she a Alfa Romeo test driver in the same way Simona was a Sauber test driver? Sauber's commitment was inexpensive, just a couple of Polo shirts.

            In fairness to everyone, there isn't much test driving allowed in Formula One. It is overwhelmingly simulator work, with the rare Friday session or tire test thrown in for PR purposes.
            “America is all about speed. Hot, nasty, badass speed.” - Eleanor Roosevelt

            Comment


            • #96
              Originally posted by flatlander_48 View Post

              You are forgetting Tatiana Calderone in F2 this year and an Alfa Romeo test driver. As far as I know, she is the highest placed female on the Euro ladder.
              I don't see where she's going to land an F1 ride ever. She's one of the slowest in the field.

              Comment


              • #97
                Originally posted by Sweaty Teddy View Post
                The biggest thing the W Series has done is shown that there aren't 20 competitive women racing drivers willing to participate in the W Series.

                Until proven otherwise, my thinking is that the W Series is meant to make this point, while taking up some otherwise excess capacity at Tatuus.
                Given that 8 of the top 12 positions in the series are held by women, they would have to be in agreement with what you said, but I doubt if that is the case. Further, if this is all a silly exercise, why would Berger want them during DTM weekends? Obviously some see value in the series, even if you don’t...

                Comment


                • #98
                  Originally posted by flatlander_48 View Post

                  Given that 8 of the top 12 positions in the series are held by women, they would have to be in agreement with what you said, but I doubt if that is the case. Further, if this is all a silly exercise, why would Berger want them during DTM weekends? Obviously some see value in the series, even if you don’t...
                  Much like the drivers in the series, it is something for them to do in the name of a cause they believe in. I will note that I don't think any of the women in those positions have a financial stake in the series, other than drawing a salary, assuming they are not volunteering their time.

                  While I can't speak specifically to whatever deal there is between DTM and W Series, but in my experience here in the States it isn't all that difficult to get your race series to run on the under card for a professional series. Beyond providing more on-track activities during a DTM weekend, in the absence of more information I'm not reading too much into this.
                  “America is all about speed. Hot, nasty, badass speed.” - Eleanor Roosevelt

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Did you read the biographies? They are all experienced at what they do.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by flatlander_48 View Post
                      Did you read the biographies? They are all experienced at what they do.
                      I should hope they do. They operate a racing series and you need experienced people to do that. I'm not sure how that changes anything I've said. Just because they're operating the Series doesn't mean any drivers participating are going to go anywhere without significantly more financial assistance than the W Series is providing its champion and top finishers.

                      There was a discussion on another site asking why there are no American drivers in Formula One, and I would argue that the reason is basically the same; there aren't that many American drivers trying, the few that are either aren't good enough, don't have the backing, or some combination of the two, and there is no motivation for the teams to specifically seek out an American driver when they have their pick of all the drivers in the world. At least not a team that has a chance to win.
                      “America is all about speed. Hot, nasty, badass speed.” - Eleanor Roosevelt

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Sweaty Teddy View Post

                        I should hope they do. They operate a racing series and you need experienced people to do that. I'm not sure how that changes anything I've said.
                        It felt like there was a hint of dismissal in what you said.

                        Originally posted by Sweaty Teddy View Post
                        Just because they're operating the Series doesn't mean any drivers participating are going to go anywhere without significantly more financial assistance than the W Series is providing its champion and top finishers.
                        As I remember, the Road To Indy pays something like $200K, compared to $500K for the W Series. Further, I don’t think the RTI does all of the behind the scenes coaching and mentoring.

                        Originally posted by Sweaty Teddy View Post
                        There was a discussion on another site asking why there are no American drivers in Formula One, and I would argue that the reason is basically the same; there aren't that many American drivers trying, the few that are either aren't good enough, don't have the backing, or some combination of the two, and there is no motivation for the teams to specifically seek out an American driver when they have their pick of all the drivers in the world. At least not a team that has a chance to win.
                        I would posit that folks in Formula 1 are not necessarily good judges of talent. Either that or that oft repeated phrase about wanting an American in the series is just smoke. Over the years they passed on Rick Mears, Paul Tracy (North American), Josef Newgarden, Alexander Rossi and Colton Herta; aces all. That does not speak well for the talent scouts/team principals...

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by flatlander_48 View Post
                          It felt like there was a hint of dismissal in what you said.
                          My skepticism of the W Series isn't based on how it is being run, as I'm sure they're doing it to the best of their ability. I disagree with the need for a W Series and have explained why in earlier posts.

                          As I remember, the Road To Indy pays something like $200K, compared to $500K for the W Series. Further, I don’t think the RTI does all of the behind the scenes coaching and mentoring.
                          Road to Indy pays significantly more to its champion, and does it in a completely different way. For example the Lights champion gets a 3-race deal, including the 500. They've had a driver coach role in the past, thought I don't know if that is currently true. I'd caution comparing the two programs, as they have different goals and business models.

                          I would posit that folks in Formula 1 are not necessarily good judges of talent. Either that or that oft repeated phrase about wanting an American in the series is just smoke. Over the years they passed on Rick Mears, Paul Tracy (North American), Josef Newgarden, Alexander Rossi and Colton Herta; aces all. That does not speak well for the talent scouts/team principals...
                          I would agree that it is just smoke, and there isn't even smoke when it comes to a woman getting int Formula One.

                          “America is all about speed. Hot, nasty, badass speed.” - Eleanor Roosevelt

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Sweaty Teddy View Post
                            Road to Indy pays significantly more to its champion, and does it in a completely different way. For example the Lights champion gets a 3-race deal, including the 500. They've had a driver coach role in the past, thought I don't know if that is currently true. I'd caution comparing the two programs, as they have different goals and business models.
                            OK, both F2 and F3 pay their series winner about $111,000, translated from Euros at current rates. Indy Pro 2000 does ~$600,000 to the series champion. IndyPro 2000 is probably a better comparison as IndyCar is 2 rungs away. The W Series, being essentially Formula 3, and is 2 rungs to Formula 1.

                            Originally posted by Sweaty Teddy View Post
                            I would agree that it is just smoke, and there isn't even smoke when it comes to a woman getting int Formula One.
                            It should be obvious that there is no point in throwing someone into a series and have them crap out. That doesn’t do anyone any good. It stands as a negative data point going forward and makes it harder for those who come afterwards. I think it is important that the W Series provides 20 women with the experience and concentrated support that they wouldn’t get otherwise. The thing is, if you do “2 or 3” eggs in the basket, your chances of finding the gem are not as good compared to a basket with 20 eggs.

                            It is likely that everyone realizes that having women well situated in various series opens an untapped demographic regarding interest and spectator support. And, as we’ve seen, there are organizations working on that, but with limited success so far. I think the W Series will help to change the situation. I’m a firm believer in: “If you do what you always did, you’ll get what you always got.”. It’s time to take a different approach as tradition means have not helped women advance in motorsports.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by flatlander_48 View Post

                              OK, both F2 and F3 pay their series winner about $111,000, translated from Euros at current rates. Indy Pro 2000 does ~$600,000 to the series champion. IndyPro 2000 is probably a better comparison as IndyCar is 2 rungs away. The W Series, being essentially Formula 3, and is 2 rungs to Formula 1.


                              It should be obvious that there is no point in throwing someone into a series and have them crap out. That doesn’t do anyone any good. It stands as a negative data point going forward and makes it harder for those who come afterwards. I think it is important that the W Series provides 20 women with the experience and concentrated support that they wouldn’t get otherwise. The thing is, if you do “2 or 3” eggs in the basket, your chances of finding the gem are not as good compared to a basket with 20 eggs.

                              It is likely that everyone realizes that having women well situated in various series opens an untapped demographic regarding interest and spectator support. And, as we’ve seen, there are organizations working on that, but with limited success so far. I think the W Series will help to change the situation. I’m a firm believer in: “If you do what you always did, you’ll get what you always got.”. It’s time to take a different approach as tradition means have not helped women advance in motorsports.
                              I don't think anyone is suggesting just throwing anyone in the deep end with no support; I certainly am not.

                              I agree with you that a change needed to be made. Where we differ is in what that change needs to be. To date, with the possible exception of one, the women racers I'm aware of have had to buy their rides one way or the other, and either end up on less competitive teams, or as an afterthought on a competitive team. And that one woman who did end up with some front line equipment didn't perform up to the level of that equipment, which IMHO made it more difficult for those who follow to get similar opportunities. What is needed is a Red Bull Driver Development type program where drivers with potential are identified, nurtured, and put in positions to either succeed or have no excuses should they fail, which would be a heck of a lot more efficient than fielding a spec-race series.
                              “America is all about speed. Hot, nasty, badass speed.” - Eleanor Roosevelt

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Sweaty Teddy View Post
                                What is needed is a Red Bull Driver Development type program where drivers with potential are identified, nurtured, and put in positions to either succeed or have no excuses should they fail, which would be a heck of a lot more efficient than fielding a spec-race series.
                                Yes, but the inherent flaw in this is that Red Bull has a profit motive in mind. They are not doing this to support a cause. They are doing this to support themselves. Also, note how many bodies they have left along the way. They really are not geared for long term support. Also, they have no skin in the game except for Red Bull Racing and Alpha Tauri. They maintain no infrastructure in any other series. Further, it is still a numbers game. Red Bull supports 8 people (when they find a replacement for O’Ward). Opportunities for 20 still improves your chances over 8.

                                Just guessing, I would assume that women make up a fair part of the Red Bull patronage, yet in all the years of the Junior Team (since 2001) and the US spinoff Driver Search (2002-05) there have been No Women. To date this covers 82 drivers plus 8 or 10 for the Driver Search. Given that MANY seem to last only a year or 2 in the Red Bull system, you might think that there should have been a few women.

                                Curious thing I noticed about Red Bull. Right now, the 7 that they support are all in F3 or F4, with the exception of Auer in Super Formula. There seems to be a pattern that they rarely post drivers to F2 and its predecessors GP2 and F3000. That seems a bit odd...

                                Comment

                                Unconfigured Ad Widget

                                Collapse
                                Working...
                                X