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  • RS2
    replied
    Originally posted by Sweaty Teddy View Post

    It stated with Simona DiSilvestro, grew into a larger conversation about opportunities for women in motorsports, then somehow turned into another conversation about Americans not being considered for Formula One.
    Danke.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sweaty Teddy
    replied
    Originally posted by flatlander_48 View Post

    Maybe 6 1/2...

    STR is based in Italy.
    Renault is split between the UK and France.

    And, regarding this thread, you’ve made no comment about #118...
    SAT is split between Faenza, Italy and Bicester, England.

    According my browser, #118 is my comment. https://www.trackforum.org/forum/mot...50#post6581650

    And again, none of this has anything to do with the topic at hand. Before this tangent, we were talking about opportunities for women in motorsport.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sweaty Teddy
    replied
    Originally posted by RS2 View Post
    What's the topic. I have not read the thread.
    It stated with Simona DiSilvestro, grew into a larger conversation about opportunities for women in motorsports, then somehow turned into another conversation about Americans not being considered for Formula One.

    Leave a comment:


  • flatlander_48
    replied
    Originally posted by Sweaty Teddy View Post

    - Eight of the ten 2020 Formula One teams are based within a two-hour drive of the Silverstone Circuit in central England. Ferrari is in Italy and Alfa Romeo is in Switzerland. By anyone's definition, 8 out of 10 - or 80% - is "the bulk".
    Maybe 6 1/2...

    STR is based in Italy.
    Renault is split between the UK and France.

    And, regarding this thread, you’ve made no comment about #118...

    Leave a comment:


  • mdkiel
    replied
    Originally posted by RS2 View Post
    What's the topic. I have not read the thread.
    Donnie Beechler.

    Leave a comment:


  • flatlander_48
    replied
    Originally posted by neti1 View Post
    1. "With the bulk of teams being based around Silverstone". F1 teams are based in four different countries. IndyCar teams are based in one ("the bulk of them around" IMS).
    2. Europe is not a country, it's a continent, containing 44 different countries.That pretty international, even if you don't count the drivers from outside Europe.
    3. One third of F1's 2020 field comes from outside Europe (six drivers, not five).
    4. F1 has drivers from 14 countries; IndyCar has.drivers from only 9. So you can't use "insufficient internationality" of drivers to somehow invalidate F1, without invalidating IndyCar even more.
    5. How would hiring 3 guys from the USA instead of (for example) a Thai, a Mexican and a Russian make F1 more diverse?
    6. And anyway, what on earth does any of the above have to do with whether or not F1 teams made a mistake by concluding that other drivers were faster than Rossi, Newgarden or Herta (who's had exactly one season in IndyCar)?
    7. "People act like Formula One is this magic racing only for the best of the best".
    That's because they are ... or at least the level of the top half of the field is higher than that of any other racing series (based on logic and historical evidence).
    Also:

    You could just about fund 2 IndyCar fields for the yearly budgets of Mercedes, Red Bull or Ferrari...

    Leave a comment:


  • RS2
    replied
    What's the topic. I have not read the thread.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sweaty Teddy
    replied
    Originally posted by neti1 View Post
    1. "With the bulk of teams being based around Silverstone". F1 teams are based in four different countries. IndyCar teams are based in one ("the bulk of them around" IMS).
    2. Europe is not a country, it's a continent, containing 44 different countries.That pretty international, even if you don't count the drivers from outside Europe.
    3. One third of F1's 2020 field comes from outside Europe (six drivers, not five).
    4. F1 has drivers from 14 countries; IndyCar has.drivers from only 9. So you can't use "insufficient internationality" of drivers to somehow invalidate F1, without invalidating IndyCar even more.
    5. How would hiring 3 guys from the USA instead of (for example) a Thai, a Mexican and a Russian make F1 more diverse?
    6. And anyway, what on earth does any of the above have to do with whether or not F1 teams made a mistake by concluding that other drivers were faster than Rossi, Newgarden or Herta (who's had exactly one season in IndyCar)?
    7. "People act like Formula One is this magic racing only for the best of the best".
    That's because they are ... or at least the level of the top half of the field is higher than that of any other racing series (based on logic and historical evidence).
    - Eight of the ten 2020 Formula One teams are based within a two-hour drive of the Silverstone Circuit in central England. Ferrari is in Italy and Alfa Romeo is in Switzerland. By anyone's definition, 8 out of 10 - or 80% - is "the bulk".

    - Who said Europe is a country? What Europe is is the place you need to be if you want to be considered for a seat in Formula One, and specifically a handful of the 44 countries that make up Europe. By my count, the non-European drivers are Albon, Latifi, Perez, Ricciardo, and Stroll. Of those five non-European drivers, two are funded by family money (including one whose father bought the team) and one is personally funded by one of the richest men in the world. The remaining two were part of the Red Bull Junior Team, which is what I'm saying should be the model for a developmental program for women racers. Looking at it another way, our Formula One "rags to riches story", Lewis Hamilton, isn't a 6-time World Champion if he isn't British, and wasn't able to walk up to Ron Dennis at age 10 and announce he was going to drive for McLaren.

    - I don't think anyone has ever claimed that IndyCar is - or is trying to be - an international series.

    Originally posted by RS2 View Post
    Nobody wanted Rossi, and Newgarden and Herta were not overlooked because they were nowhere on the radar.
    Rossi had barely enough funding to put together a few starts for arguably the worst team on the grid at the time. Neither Newgarden nor Herta ever had the backing to get on anyone's radar.

    ---

    And I'm still not sure what any of this has to to with opportunities for women in motorsport, apart from avoiding the topic.

    Leave a comment:


  • RS2
    replied
    Nobody wanted Rossi, and Newgarden and Herta were not overlooked because they were nowhere on the radar.

    Leave a comment:


  • neti1
    replied
    Originally posted by Sweaty Teddy View Post

    I don't know if "good enough" is the appropriate description, because getting - and keeping - a seat in Formula One involves more than just being "good enough". People act like Formula One is this magic racing only for the best of the best. With the bulk of teams being based around Silverstone, and only five drivers being non-Europeans (and two of those are funding their respective teams), it barely even qualifies as an international series. It is a European racing series that tours the world.
    1. "With the bulk of teams being based around Silverstone". F1 teams are based in four different countries. IndyCar teams are based in one ("the bulk of them around" IMS).
    2. Europe is not a country, it's a continent, containing 44 different countries.That pretty international, even if you don't count the drivers from outside Europe.
    3. One third of F1's 2020 field comes from outside Europe (six drivers, not five).
    4. F1 has drivers from 14 countries; IndyCar has.drivers from only 9. So you can't use "insufficient internationality" of drivers to somehow invalidate F1, without invalidating IndyCar even more.
    5. How would hiring 3 guys from the USA instead of (for example) a Thai, a Mexican and a Russian make F1 more diverse?
    6. And anyway, what on earth does any of the above have to do with whether or not F1 teams made a mistake by concluding that other drivers were faster than Rossi, Newgarden or Herta (who's had exactly one season in IndyCar)?
    7. "People act like Formula One is this magic racing only for the best of the best".
    That's because they are ... or at least the level of the top half of the field is higher than that of any other racing series (based on logic and historical evidence).
    Last edited by neti1; 12-17-2019, 10:18 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • flatlander_48
    replied
    This should be interesting:

    https://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id...-female-driver

    Leave a comment:


  • flatlander_48
    replied
    Originally posted by Spike View Post
    Likewise.
    http://atlasf1.autosport.com/97/winter2/glikin.html

    The usual F1 commentators and pundits feel no regret at the squandering of American talent. Its time to put that right. Just who are the members of this "Lost Generation?" I'll go back all the way to Rick Mears, who tested a Brabham BT49-Ford just prior to the 1980 Long Beach Grand Prix and Nelson Piquet's first F1 victory. Rick declined Bernie Ecclestone's offer of a ride when he figured out he was to be a rent-a-driver. Piquet's teammate at the time? Argentinean Ricardo Zunino. Zunino's replacement at Brabham? Mexican Hector Rebaque. Did Bernie really rate Mears, Zunino and Rebaque as equals? In hindsight, that's the way it looks.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sweaty Teddy
    replied
    Originally posted by neti1 View Post
    There's no "obviously" about it. None of those guys have proved they're good enough for F1, all they've proved is that they can win in a lower-level series, against a bunch of other drivers who couldn't make it in (or into) F1. Plenty of drivers have dominated such lower-level series, but then tanked in F1.
    I don't know if "good enough" is the appropriate description, because getting - and keeping - a seat in Formula One involves more than just being "good enough". People act like Formula One is this magic racing only for the best of the best. With the bulk of teams being based around Silverstone, and only five drivers being non-Europeans (and two of those are funding their respective teams), it barely even qualifies as an international series. It is a European racing series that tours the world.

    Leave a comment:


  • neti1
    replied
    Originally posted by flatlander_48 View Post

    Mears was clearly fast enough, but Bernie wanted him to bring money. Hard to tell what Rossi could, or could not, do in a dog car. Talent blooms at different times. It is relatively easy to evaluate current performance, but what a scout is also supposed to do is to predict the likelihood of future growth and development. Obviously they guessed wrong with Newgarden, Rossi and Herta.
    There's no "obviously" about it. None of those guys have proved they're good enough for F1, all they've proved is that they can win in a lower-level series, against a bunch of other drivers who couldn't make it in (or into) F1. Plenty of drivers have dominated such lower-level series, but then tanked in F1.

    Certainly I am no expert, but then again I’ve been watching F1 races since the early 60’s...
    So have I. And so have many of the people who make the driver decisions in F1. But unlike you and I, they are experts.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sweaty Teddy
    replied
    There is some sort of irony at work here that this conversation about opportunities for female drivers has been turned into another conversation about male drivers who had their opportunities...

    Leave a comment:

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