A response to ride buying rationale

[hdolan]

A few answered my question the only way it could be answered, there is no difference whether CART does it or the IRL does it. The other responses ranged from animosity towards me and NASCAR, to a great response about Joel Thorne who, indeed, did try to buy the entire field at Indianapolis.

Do I believe that ridebuying can be completely done away with, no. My argument was with the evolution of what's ok today when the IRL does it, but, what was not ok when CART did it.

Those who would point fingers at the few instances in NASCAR miss the point. NASCAR is not the question, the IRL is. It's much like the, 'gee mom, everybody else is doing it' argument. Could be, but, let's talk about our problems and how to correct it.

I believe that Foyt has abandoned all facades about anti-ride buying, be it foreign or domestic; and that ain't good. The Devries thing is every bit as bad, on the surface, as Hollandsworth or Charlie Nearburg in my opinion. And we all roasted ol' Charlie pretty well as I recall.

Finally, I've been accused of not trying to provide a solution and I plead guilty. It's not my place to do so. It's the IRL's responsibility to do so, if it perceives ride buying as a problem.

Perhaps the league doesn't see the damage that comes from revolving door line ups, which is a ******* child of ride buying. It completely alienated me from CART.

[ January 17, 2002: Message edited by: hdolan ]

[mario]

Obviously, this year is particularly bad. Its a ride-buying fest all over the place. Even Rahal is selling his 2d seat.

[Truth Detector]

Originally posted by hdolan:
<STRONG> Perhaps the league doesn't see the damage that comes from revolving door line ups, which is a ******* child of ride buying. It completely alienated me from CART.</STRONG>

Me too, howard, but now CART's line-up is more secure than the IRL's.

It remains the #1 biggest problem facing the IRL and there is no quick fix in site.

[slinger]

Howard,by all means take your allegiance to NASCAR,stick your head in the sand and close yourself off to the realities of the problems in that series.Either the IRL will find a solution to it's problems or it won't.You're right.It's not up to you to help find the answers.

The difference between you and some of the rest of us is that we love open wheel racing enough to try.Obviously,you don't.

[CamKing]

I will bet $$$ things will be much better in the IRL in 2003. There will be more qualified teams and drivers pushing the less talented drivers out. I know of 4-6 drivers coming to the IRL in 2003 and none of them are ride buyers. This year is going to be an off year, because most people didn't want to jump into the IRL and buy chassis and engines that will be obsolete next year.

[hdolan]

"Howard,by all means take your allegiance to NASCAR,stick your head in the sand and close yourself off to the realities of the problems in that series.Either the IRL will find a solution to it's problems or it won't.You're right.It's not up to you to help find the answers.
The difference between you and some of the rest of us is that we love open wheel racing enough to try.Obviously,you don't."

An an example of animosity...gee slinger, you can't even keep on topic...take a deeep breath...

[IndyJim]

>>>>>>>>>

It is human nature (unfortunately) to be critical.

It is much easier for us to point out the faults of others rather than stress the good points. How many of us that are married have no problem pointing out to our wives that the family room is a mess without praising her for the 25 things she did do that day?

I am sssooooooooo glad the IRL exists. I can count of 15 kick bottom races next year. Will there be some ride buyers? Sure, there were 20 years ago, and their will be 20 years from now.

But excuse me if I don't let it bother me too much, and if I don't feel it is an OUTRAGE (done to the voice of Johnny Cochran).

Man, if I was younger and had a bunch of money, I would get into racing, and with one goal, to win the Indy 500. Why begrudge someone else their dreams? What country is this?

I guess I never realized how difficult it has been just being a FAN all these years.

[Dr. Austin]

Why is something wrong when CART does it and right when the IRL does the same thing? If you had paid attention over the last 22 you would know. So i will lay it out for those who just started watching yesterday.

CART sold out entirely. they were the guardians of sport and they sold us out. they sold ot the entire sport for a cheap and dirty Wall street buck. they turned the sport over to a bunch of greedy and stupid corporate **** yes men bean counters. They were completely unworthy to run the sport and proved it by showing their preference for money over stewardship. They could have been giants, but the money was too tempting.


That is why EVERYTHING that goes on in CART is wrong. that is why the whole series must swirl down the bowl into extinction, taking all the Usa Bin Vannini's and Darth Grosfelds with them. And PT Hietzler can go too.

And Pook with his little sweetheart deals, getting out of his contract so he can work his former employer's "preferred promoter" status from within. Oh, that looks like a clean arrangement.

And all the stock insider trading deals. do any of you really believe the securities and exchange commission isn't going to look into all of this?

So what if the whole thing implodes and goes china syndrome the moment Tony gets full control? CART was taking us there anyway, so forget about the sure highway to, errrr, heck. I'll take my chances with George. At least if he is crooked it is only one snake instead of a whole festering nest.

That's why. Becuase we already know about what the people running CART are all about. We already know about how they have covered us in shame with their shadey deals and outright Texas sized rip- offs. That's why. CART is always wrong because everything is a corporate bottom line bonanza.

[Turn13]

Originally posted by hdolan:
<STRONG>Finally, I've been accused of not trying to provide a solution and I plead guilty. It's not my place to do so. It's the IRL's responsibility to do so, if it perceives ride buying as a problem.

Perhaps the league doesn't see the damage that comes from revolving door line ups, which is a ******* child of ride buying. It completely alienated me from CART.
</STRONG>

I think the League has done most of what's within it's power to address the problem- lowering costs on one hand, and improving sponsor value on the other with promotion and a compelling on-track product (formula).

It's up to individual teams how they respond to that environment. It's totally appropriate for fans to let their opinions be heard- to teams, sponsors, and ultimately the League.

I suppose the League could usurp some of the teams' authority in placing drivers, but I don't think that that could be well managed from a practical standpoint. The League can (and does) ensure minimum requirements and achievement for "licensing"- they could do more here, perhaps, but I wonder about that option just increasing costs.

The best bet, as I've always said, is for the demand for talent to outweigh the dollar considerations. Bringing down and controlling costs is only one side of the equation- the other side is the revenue side- the value based on popularity and the need to WIN, not just RUN.

Growing fandom and breaking down perceived "inferiority" raises the revenue side, and THAT is the real Catch-22.

Sifaka (or is it wynnspeed?) would say we've merely lowered the cost of ridebuying, and he's right, unless and IF the revenue side grows. I believe it will grow, because I believe the management is more focused and the on-track product is better.

Originally posted by CamKing:
<STRONG>This year is going to be an off year, because most people didn't want to jump into the IRL and buy chassis and engines that will be obsolete next year.</STRONG>

You are right about one thing, the quality of the teams should improve in 2003 in theory because teams need to buy equipment. BUT, if the rules are the same as the past the equipment will be grandfathered in. While you might not qualify for Indy in the the stuff cheap teams and ride buyers will still run it in the other races.

The premise of the post is correct. It is wrong to defend the IRL when people trashed CART. No doubt.

[CamKing]

Originally posted by Mista Bone:
<STRONG>

You are right about one thing, the quality of the teams should improve in 2003 in theory because teams need to buy equipment. BUT, if the rules are the same as the past the equipment will be grandfathered in. While you might not qualify for Indy in the the stuff cheap teams and ride buyers will still run it in the other races.
</STRONG>

Not likely.

The 2003 specs are so much different than the 2002, I don't think you'll see any old cars or engines in 2003.

If there are more drivers than starting spots, you won't make the race with a 10mph slower car.

[JoeBob]

I will bet $$$ things will be much better in the IRL in 2003. There will be more qualified teams and drivers pushing the less talented drivers out. I know of 4-6 drivers coming to the IRL in 2003 and none of them are ride buyers. This year is going to be an off year, because most people didn't want to jump into the IRL and buy chassis and engines that will be obsolete next year.

Why is there such blind faith in 2003?

In 2003, the costs are going up, as all the teams competing in the IRL need to buy new chassis and engines. Other than costs going up, what changes are taking place in 2003 that will lead to "more qualified teams and drivers pushing the less talented drivers out"?

[slinger]

I don't need to take a deep breath,Howard.You keep coming around preaching the same old sermon while saying it's not your place to think of any solutions.That's true.But if that's the case,why preach unless your only purpose is to pi$$ people off?

Look Howard,you were there in the good old days.You remember how it was.So do I.If we,and many others around here aren't going to be the ones who help it get back to what it was,then who?If you want to abandon it for NASCAR,that's fine,but why continue to pick at it?

I'm not satisfied with the present state of affairs either.I keep trying to come up with answers.Judging from the response,that isn't winning me many friends.I accept that.I'd much rather be known as someone with goofy ideas than someone who did nothing but complain.

It's not animosity,Howard.It's irritation.Maybe you really do have the answer.If you don't share it,I guess you don't care enough about the sport you claimed to have loved.If you have no ideas,then what is the perverse pleasure in stirring the pot?Are you trying to convince us all to give our allegiance to stock car racing?With some of us,it won't work.I was a NASCAR fan 30 years before you attended your first one.My interest is only casual these days.I don't spend much time telling their fans what's wrong with it.

[aXe]

Work hard nose to the grind stone and maybe just maybe if you are lucky it might happen for you, But realize there are others born with a silver spoon or something like it that are way ahead of you. Or maybe even others ahead of you that worked just as hard?No guarantees but somes times it pays off.
Every sporting event in our and other societies work just about the same.
I for not a minute believe that the very best are at the Olympics. Just the best that shows with the bucks or access to it.
Heck the very best may just be sitting on the east side of town across the tracks without a chance in the world to show how good they are.
As they say money talks and B-U-l-l S-h-i-t, Walks.

aXe

[Turn13]

Originally posted by JoeBob:
<STRONG>

Why is there such blind faith in 2003?</STRONG>

The "faith" not "blind" is not blind if it is informed.

<STRONG>
In 2003, the costs are going up, as all the teams competing in the IRL need to buy new chassis and engines. </STRONG>

Most teams buy new equipment or updates every year. I haven't been informed of any unusual cost increases.

<STRONG>...what changes are taking place in 2003 that will lead to "more qualified teams and drivers pushing the less talented drivers out"?</STRONG>

Well, you may have to waut and see ... the poster did say that he knew of 4 to 6. We all know of a few this year- it's not a great leap to expect even more when widely discussed changes in the motorsports industry landscape inevitably come "due".