Interesting visit with Lee White at PRI

[Racewriter]

Stopped by the TRD booth at PRI yesterday, and had an interesting 10 minutes with Lee White. First of all, other than a couple of pictures in the backdrop, I didn't notice an IRL presence there at all - the displays were of their CTS truck and engine (logical), and of their new Grand-Am Daytona Prototype engine (a bit of a surprise, considering there wasn't an IRL engine on display).

So, I talked to Lee about the Truck engine. I said, "So when are these going to be available for short trackers?" He replied that they wouldn't be legal for NASCAR series other than Trucks, but any outlaw racer that wanted one would be able to buy the stuff by July at the latest. Heads would be available by April, but blocks would be all taken up by the trucks until the end of June. After that point, they'll keep shelf stock for sale. Interesting also that for most of the components, they worked with the usual sources - Edelbrock intake, Bryant crank, etc.

Anyone who wants one can buy the same stuff they'll run in Trucks. A stark contrast to their IRL program.

Another cool detail is that the bellhousing and crank flange pattern is the same as the small block Chevy, as are the water outlets. That makes it a drop-in operation - smart.

[Mackie]

Did you ask him if they made a special effort to build crap engines for Foyt so his effort couldn't win while ALL the other Toyota teams did? That is what AJ said and you made your signature line.

[mac miller]

Also on the engine front, Wasn't it interesting that chevrolet didn't have their FORD COSWORTH Indy engine "on display"??....... I went over to see if FORD had one "on display", but I didn't see it there either...... FORD COSWORTH did have their c>rt motor "on display" at their booth...... I took a long look at it, knowing that it will, probably, be the last time anyone will ever see one again in public............ Ferrari FI engines were "on display" by 2 or 3 different companies!........... The big engine news, to me, was the company that is building new FORD COSWORTH BDA engines. This is big news because BDA engines and parts were becoming very difficult to find.

[vegasduo]

Re: Interesting visit with Lee White at PRI

Originally posted by Racewriter
Stopped by the TRD booth at PRI yesterday, and had an interesting 10 minutes with Lee White. First of all, other than a couple of pictures in the backdrop, I didn't notice an IRL presence there at all - the displays were of their CTS truck and engine (logical), and of their new Grand-Am Daytona Prototype engine (a bit of a surprise, considering there wasn't an IRL engine on display).

So, I talked to Lee about the Truck engine. I said, "So when are these going to be available for short trackers?" He replied that they wouldn't be legal for NASCAR series other than Trucks, but any outlaw racer that wanted one would be able to buy the stuff by July at the latest. Heads would be available by April, but blocks would be all taken up by the trucks until the end of June. After that point, they'll keep shelf stock for sale. Interesting also that for most of the components, they worked with the usual sources - Edelbrock intake, Bryant crank, etc.

Anyone who wants one can buy the same stuff they'll run in Trucks. A stark contrast to their IRL program.

Another cool detail is that the bellhousing and crank flange pattern is the same as the small block Chevy, as are the water outlets. That makes it a drop-in operation - smart.

All very interesting and I, for one, appreciate the info but you did you ask him if Toyota IndyCar engines are for sale to IndyCar teams?

"Anyone who wants one can buy the same stuff they'll run in Trucks. A stark contrast to their IRL program."
Gee, I guess NASCAR and IndyCar must have different engine rules. Who woulda' thought that? NASCAR doesn't allow for any engine development whereas IndyCar does. Besides, would there even be any open market demand for an alcohol burning 3.5l DOHC FI IndyCar V-8?

[dog-ring]

Ask him what the price will be RW. Also ask him who is the only auth. builder and rebulder for these engines. I'll bet it's TRD in Torrance Cal. Now you'll see what TRD will bring to Cup like they do in the IRL.

[Longhorn]

Originally posted by dog-ring
Ask him what the price will be RW. Also ask him who is the only auth. builder and rebulder for these engines. I'll bet it's TRD in Torrance Cal. Now you'll see what TRD will bring to Cup like they do in the IRL.

Don't forget the Bill France factor..........He has no hesitation telling Toyota where to stick it if Nascar senses something fishy.

[vegasduo]

Originally posted by dog-ring
Ask him what the price will be RW. Also ask him who is the only auth. builder and rebulder for these engines. I'll bet it's TRD in Torrance Cal. Now you'll see what TRD will bring to Cup like they do in the IRL.

I'll bet you're wrong. Toyota will sell both engines and parts or they won't race in NASCAR. The owners of those engines and parts can use any rebuilder they wish.

[LorenzoBandini]

Originally posted by Longhorn
Don't forget the Bill France factor..........He has no hesitation telling Toyota where to stick it if Nascar senses something fishy.

Bill France ain't in charge anymore. For the part of the France family in charge of NASCAR now a days, it is all about the money. Nobody is telling anybody to stick anything anywhere as long as the checks keep rolling in.

[vegasduo]

Originally posted by LorenzoBandini
Bill France ain't in charge anymore. For the part of the France family in charge of NASCAR now a days, it is all about the money. Nobody is telling anybody to stick anything anywhere as long as the checks keep rolling in.

NASCAR rejected the original engine design submitted by Toyota. I believe Toyota was told, in polite terms of course, to "stick it" and come back again when you've dumbed it down quite a bit.

[KenK]

So it is theoretically possible that the 2005 season may see
Toyota power in late models, USAC SC, and some sprint
series?

[jl]

Bill Davis Racing is building some engines, in addition to TRD in calif. TRD has subcontracted BDR engine mechs.(basically they are getting paid by TRD at the moment).

BDR has to build the engine exactly as TRD tells them to and they are not allowed to modify any parts or method of building the engine. Right now they are down on Hp. The situation sounds a lot like Menards battle with Chevy and the GenIII at the moment.

TRD has done some things at the "suggestion" of NASCAR. Not sure how long that will last.

You can learn a lot talking to people here in Greensboro, N.C., but I'd much rather be back in Indy.

[Truth Detector]

more importantly, rw....

how were the donuts??

[frodo13]

I remember, Daimler-Chrysler submitted several designs before approval. Finally NASCAR shower them the GM and Ford engines and said" here is what we are looking for".

[Racewriter]

Originally posted by dog-ring
Ask him what the price will be RW. Also ask him who is the only auth. builder and rebulder for these engines. I'll bet it's TRD in Torrance Cal. Now you'll see what TRD will bring to Cup like they do in the IRL.

I did. The blocks will sell for about $2200 (his estimate at this time), with a rough bore, no align hone, and needing lifter bores finished, just like Chevy and Ford sell theirs.

Heads with seats and guides, and the port job, will run around $3500 a set.

The only other parts that will be Toyota-sourced will be the rocker covers, intake valley cover, and the rear cam cap. The intake is Edelbrock, crank is Bryant, rods are pretty much any high-end manufacturer, JE has the piston design, cam billets are already in stock at most of the cam manufacturers, rockers are either Jesel or T&D, you get the idea. MSD does the ignition.

I'd expect that these things will be running anywhere they're legal by spring 2005. The blocks have a very interesting casting process that lightens them considerably, but allows them to have a 4.185" bore capacity. Heads are also lighter than others - he said they were about 100 pounds lighter than a Mopar CTS engine. For a dirt late model, for example, most associations say that if you run an aluminum block, you have to run 50# of lead ahead of the bellhousing. Since there's more than a 50# weight difference, it's still advantageous to do so. However, this block could negate that tradeoff to a degree.

Lee said in the beginning that they had no intention of selling IRL engines to anyone who wanted one. He's said from the start that they were selling NASCAR engines to anyone who wanted them. It's not because he's a nice guy and TRD is a good hearted company - it's because NASCAR makes them do so and the IRL doesn't.

[Racewriter]

Originally posted by Truth Detector
more importantly, rw....

how were the donuts??

Excellent. Thanks a bunch. We really enjoyed having breakfast with you and the little Detectors. We'll get together again soon.