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Even General Patton had to start out as a Plebe

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  • Even General Patton had to start out as a Plebe

    Or for an alternative title: Learn to walk before you run!

    Or for yet another title: If Ed Carpenter and J.J. Yeley had a one-on-one match race in identically prepared Indy cars right here right now, Carpenter would win hands down!

    One of my biggest hopes for next season is that Ed Carpenter does well. That will send an important message echoing through the USAC ranks.

    That contrary to Mr. Yeley's opinion, there is a successful pathway from USAC to IndyCars.

    It is the Infiniti Pro Series.

    While Yeley is correct in stating that there is a substantial difference between a USAC sprinter and an Indy car, there is also a substantial difference between a USAC sprinter and a NASCAR stock car.

    That's why Joe Gibbs is putting Yeley through the A-B-C program. No two bits about it. Yeley is good, but not good enough to jump straight into a full-time NASCAR Cup ride. The A-B-C program will get him adjusted to stock cars at a lower performance level and test his ability and worthiness of a full-time ride in the top level of stock car racing.

    Any USAC graduate driver would expect nothing more than that out of a NASCAR team owner. And they should expect nothing more than that out of an IndyCar team owner too.

    There is indeed a large gap between USAC cars and IRL cars. That gap is filled by the IPS cars. They get prospective IndyCar drivers used to winged, rear-engine cars on large speedways at a lower performance level and make them better prepared to handle the fastest circuit-racing cars on the planet. J.J. Yeley would most likely have struggled (at least at the start) in an Indy car if he had jumped straight out of the Silver Crown car into it.

    The credibility and legitimacy of the Infiniti Pro Series rests on USAC graduates like Ed Carpenter succeeding in IndyCar. That will 2 messages:

    1) To USAC drivers who dream of the Indy 500 that the IPS is the way to get there.

    2) To IRL team owners that the IPS is a good place to grab drivers from. (Carpenter, Taylor, Fike-maybe)

    That will bridge the gap that J.J. Yeley thought was too far.
    Last edited by Sybil D. Sobydianz; 11-30-2003, 04:28 AM.
    - Make a note of the word 'Gobbly-gook'. I like it and I want to use it more often in conversation.
    --Yes, sir.

  • #2
    Maybe if JJ were Tony's stepson...

    Let's see how many years it takes before Ed can match JJ's eighth place at Indy...
    "It was actually fun, because you're back fully driving again in these trucks. Ninety percent of the tracks we go to in the IRL, you're flat-out. I was having to lift off the corners some here." - Buddy Rice

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    • #3
      JJ would probably have liked to have been 8th at Indy.

      JJ's 500 was in 1998. I think most interested parties would agree that the competition level has been raised a bit since then.
      "Each day well lived makes every yesterday a dream of happiness and every tomorrow a vision of hope. Look well therefore to this one day for it, and it alone, is life"
      ~ Sanskrit poem attributed to Kalidasa, "Salutation to the Dawn"


      Brian's Wish

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      • #4
        There is one huge difference between the ABC program that Yeley will run in stock cars and running in the IPS series. Gibbs will be paying Yeley. If he ran the IPS, Yeley would be the one doing the paying.
        Proud to be a complainer.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Racewriter
          Maybe if JJ were Tony's stepson...

          Let's see how many years it takes before Ed can match JJ's eighth place at Indy...
          To tell you the truth, he could top that next year with a PDM car. The kid looked very impressive in the few ICS races he has run.
          He kani 'ano 'e loa kela. Ua 'ai nui anei 'oe ma ke kakahiaka?

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          • #6
            Originally posted by slinger
            There is one huge difference between the ABC program that Yeley will run in stock cars and running in the IPS series. Gibbs will be paying Yeley. If he ran the IPS, Yeley would be the one doing the paying.
            agreed!
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            • #7
              The competition level may have been raised since JJs 8th place finish at Indy but so has JJs talent level. I doubt if JJ could have pulled off three USAC titles in 1998.

              I think JJ expected his apprenticeship in Indy car to be complete with the experience he had. So did I.

              I think a more fair question will be: Which driver will be a bigger household word, Ed with the full IRL season or JJ doing the ABC program?

              I do wish both drivers well in 2004.

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              • #8
                To even compare Ed Carpenter to JJ Yeley as a race car driver is simply nutty. There is no mystery here, the two have gone head to head many times and Yeley has beaten Carpenter like a drum. Ed has what? Two wins in his whole USAC career, Yeley does that in a good weekend these days. Ed is a good guy and a decent driver, but he just isn't in the league talent wise as drivers like Yeley, Steele, Hines and Drake who win championships, not a race or two in thier whole career.

                Regarding Yeley and the IRL, it seems to me Yeley figured out ahead of time that the Panther test was a sham, like it turned out to be. Remember all the talk about this or that driver getting a shot in some big open test. oh yea I know things changed, yada, yada, yada - bologna. The ride went to the guy who relative to his equipment was the biggest flop on the grid in 2003 and the much talked about second seat went up for sale.

                Plus, this idea that the IPS is a viable, real series is way off base. There was only one single ride in the whole field that wasn't bought last year. Folks, a single blasted seat and you got people ragging this or that driver for not jumping in. That's outrageous. I'd be willing to bet Gibbs and Stewart didn't ask Yeley for a check.
                Last edited by AdamM; 11-28-2003, 10:39 AM.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by BigFig
                  Your statement about the talent levels of JJ and Carpenter is about as accurate as your statement about Patton being a private.
                  I was wondering who was going to point that out first.

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                  • #10
                    JJ, is now in NASCAR for gosh sake get over it.
                    sa

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by stan
                      JJ, is now in NASCAR for gosh sake get over it.
                      You don't understand, Stan. Yeley has now joined the likes of Tony Stewart and other drivers who have chosen the big leagues. He's now to be slammed by the faithful Hulmanistas in the vein of, "Well, darnit, he wasn't that good, anyway!" Coming in two years: The "JJ, come home to Indy Car" threads.
                      "It was actually fun, because you're back fully driving again in these trucks. Ninety percent of the tracks we go to in the IRL, you're flat-out. I was having to lift off the corners some here." - Buddy Rice

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by grogg
                        The competition level may have been raised since JJs 8th place finish at Indy but so has JJs talent level. I doubt if JJ could have pulled off three USAC titles in 1998.

                        I think JJ expected his apprenticeship in Indy car to be complete with the experience he had. So did I.

                        I think a more fair question will be: Which driver will be a bigger household word, Ed with the full IRL season or JJ doing the ABC program?

                        I do wish both drivers well in 2004.
                        I would agree with all your points, and I think JJ already is a bigger name than Ed is.
                        "Each day well lived makes every yesterday a dream of happiness and every tomorrow a vision of hope. Look well therefore to this one day for it, and it alone, is life"
                        ~ Sanskrit poem attributed to Kalidasa, "Salutation to the Dawn"


                        Brian's Wish

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                        • #13
                          No, JJ should be slammed for wrecking Tracey Hines on the final lap last night.
                          We flipped our finger to the King of England
                          Stole our country from the Indians
                          With god on our side and guns in our hands
                          We took it for our own!

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by AdamM
                            To even compare Ed Carpenter to JJ Yeley as a race car driver is simply nutty. There is mystery here, the two have gone head to head many times and Yeley has beaten Carpenter like a drum. Ed has what? Two wins in his whole USAC career, Yeley does that in a good weekend these days. Ed is a good guy and a decent driver, but he just isn't in the league talent wise as drivers like Yeley, Steele, Hines and Drake who win championships, not a race or two in thier whole career.

                            Regarding Yeley and the IRL, it seems to me Yeley figured out ahead of time that the Panther test was a sham, like it turned out to be. Remember all the talk about this or that driver getting a shot in some big open test. oh yea I know things changed, yada, yada, yada - bologna. The ride went to the guy who relative to his equipment was the biggest flop on the grid in 2003 and the much talked about second seat went up for sale.

                            Plus, this idea that the IPS is a viable, real series is way off base. There was only one single ride in the whole field that wasn't bought last year. Folks, a single blasted seat and you got people ragging this or that driver for not jumping in. That's outrageous. I'd be willing to bet Gibbs and Stewart didn't ask Yeley for a check.
                            Good points here as well.

                            Of course, the IPS was created not out of consumer demand (the fans) but out of a perceived necessity to provide a technical bridge from the USAC-type series to the Indy-type formula.

                            Of course it follows than that the teams and rides in this fledgling series are less well established. I think it is merely hoped that someone will find a benefit in it here in these early days, and that it will become more popular as it becomes part of the solution. In the meantime (and maybe for all time), ridebuying will exist as long as costs far outstrip fan/sponsor demand.

                            Others will obviously take their pot shots, but I think the series has a purpose, even if it is far from realized yet.

                            Some will take pot shots at IPS for what it is right now - just as some did at the IRL when it was starting.

                            Some will take shots for what it implies about the existing feeders, or the drivers in them, but the inability of the current system to put drivers in Indy Cars can't be denied with successful examples.

                            Still others will take their shots at IPS for what it may mean to their hopes of "devolving" Indy Cars to be more in line with the old former feeder systems.

                            I don't think IPS therefore has a snowball's chance... but I do think it was the "right" thing to do, on "principle"...
                            "Each day well lived makes every yesterday a dream of happiness and every tomorrow a vision of hope. Look well therefore to this one day for it, and it alone, is life"
                            ~ Sanskrit poem attributed to Kalidasa, "Salutation to the Dawn"


                            Brian's Wish

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Turn13
                              Good points here as well.

                              Of course, the IPS was created not out of consumer demand (the fans) but out of a perceived necessity to provide a technical bridge from the USAC-type series to the Indy-type formula.

                              Of course it follows than that the teams and rides in this fledgling series are less well established. I think it is merely hoped that someone will find a benefit in it here in these early days, and that it will become more popular as it becomes part of the solution. In the meantime (and maybe for all time), ridebuying will exist as long as costs far outstrip fan/sponsor demand.

                              Others will obviously take their pot shots, but I think the series has a purpose, even if it is far from realized yet.

                              Some will take pot shots at IPS for what it is right now - just as some did at the IRL when it was starting.

                              Some will take shots for what it implies about the existing feeders, or the drivers in them, but the inability of the current system to put drivers in Indy Cars can't be denied with successful examples.

                              Still others will take their shots at IPS for what it may mean to their hopes of "devolving" Indy Cars to be more in line with the old former feeder systems.

                              I don't think IPS therefore has a snowball's chance... but I do think it was the "right" thing to do, on "principle"...

                              ...I agree by & large with you.

                              With a brand-new series, a stepping-stone series at that, with limited new underfunded teams & relatively no sponsorship Idon't see how you wouldn't have ride-buying.

                              The IPS reminds me too much of F2000 in that the cars are 'too-even' and become more of just a parade of cars leap-frogging each other.

                              As far as driver comparisons,.....well there is only 1 accurate way, comparing the two drivers in similar equipment at the same time.

                              I'm not even going to get into the 'series-comparisons' debate as that's about as old and as irrelevant of an arguement that can be made. I can accept the fact that Indycar racing will never be as popular as NASCAR, and I don't have a problem with that.
                              ​a bad day at the race track beats a good day at work

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