IRL vs. USAC sprints

[Heath Hamilton]

So many IRL "fans" are full of crap, talking about how foreign ride buyers, Penske & Ganassi, manufacturer support and whatever else is going to ruin the IRL or turn it into CART...you read it here all the time.

"I'm made because they won't hire my favorite American driver...Foreign ride buyers are ruining the sport...no one goes to IRL races or watches them on TV...the only way to fix this is to hire american sprint drivers....."

BS. Total BS.

Answer me this: Why isn't USAC sprint car racing the PREMIER auto racing in the USA????

It's got everything the the "fans" want. American drivers, slower speeds, engines up front, ovals (dirt and asphalt), owner/drivers, JJ Yeley...etc.

Why don't we see more of them on primetime TV? Why is it not 100 times bigger, why don't they sell 30,000+ tickets at every race??

Because, regardless of how rabid of a fanbase all 15 of you are, no one gives a crap.

[hdolan]

"Answer me this: Why isn't USAC sprint car racing the PREMIER auto racing in the USA???? "

Because it is a feeder series for the Premier racing series in the US...

[Heath Hamilton]

that answer is not acceptable....

[slinger]

Originally posted by Heath Hamilton
that answer is not acceptable....

Maybe not but it's probably true.

[frankie13]

Its about time somebody said it.

While many on here feel that USAC is the greatest thing in the world, outside of Indiana and the surrounding areas... nobody cares.

While Im sure that USAC produces some great drivers, in reality most people have never heard of those stars that come out of there. Do you really think Jeff Gordon and Tony Stewart become stars in USAC? No, they became stars when they went to NASCAR.

It is just plain stupid to complain when "IndyCar let go the next Jeff Gordon." JJ Yeley will be the next Jeff Gordon when he wins four Winston Cup titles not when he races in the IRL. The problem is many see how big Jeff Gordon and Tony Stewart are now and think that their fame would have been the same if they were in the IRL.

Most of you that live in the midwest area just dont understand because you see USAC all the time. Outside of that area, USAC is not even a blimp on the radar screen. I have followed open wheel and NASCAR racing for a long time and I never heard of Yeley, Stewart, Newman, Gordon or any others until they either raced at Indy or raced in NASCAR.

If you want a feeder system, build up the Infiniti Pro Series and lets produce our own talent rather than complaining every time a USAC driver decides to go NASCAR racing.

[gofastturnleft]

Originally posted by frankie13
USAC is not even a blimp on the radar screen.

Well no darn wonder USAC can't get ahead. You can't be succesful in racing without a blimp! Rollie better call Goodyear fast to see about leasing one of those puppies.

[Jimmy Hendricks]

First off, I don't think most IRL fans that are truly concerned with the future of the sport in this country are "full of crap" as you so elegently put it.

Most of the "pro-sprint car crowd" on this board not only are advocating more of their type of driver in IRL seats, but more American's in general. Guys like Hornish, rbm, the Laziers, Barron and Rice (all who don't come from a sprint car background) NEED to be in this series just as guys like Kite, Steele, Boat, Carpenter and Fike do. These guys have all proven their talents either in lower formulas (USAC, Atlantics, F2000, IPS) or they have proven their abilities in the IRL (by actually racing well in IRL races).

The point we are trying to make is that it is a proven fact that American sports fans GENERALLY want to root for and support American athletes. In this case, the athlete is the race driver. If this series is not primarily made up of American drivers, it is not going to succeed in this country. The 500' is a different story. But as long as all but 1 of the races are in this country, then the drivers need to be mostly American too, IMO.

I don't think anyone is saying that the IRL needs to made up of all USAC champions. And no one is saying the Jon Herb's and John deVries's of the world need to be in the league just because they are American. But, the really talented American drivers (you know, the ones you can watch in NASCAR on weekly basis) should at least have the opportunity to race in the IRL. And right now, those opportunities are few and far between.

And most rational people do not advocate the exclusion of foreign drivers either, as long as that particular driver actually WANTS to race in the IRL and is not forced here by an outside force. If Dario, Manning or Dixon (and probably a few Americans too) would rather do what comes natural to them (road race) then that is where they should be. I don't blame them for not wanting to race in the IRL. They are hired guns. I blame the car owners or engine manufacturers who continually make bad decisions in hiring drivers and don't have a clue about selling their product to the American public.

[slinger]

Spot on! Great post Jimmy.

[EdJVuky]

Jimmy Hendricks-------EXACTLY!!!

Its not anti-anyone, it's pro-American drivers who have the talent.
They sould not be ignored. That said, many of them should stop in the IPS on the way up. That'll open doors too.

[DonnieB]

USAC is just like dozens of other middle level American oval racing series. They run short races on short tracks. None of them get prime-time network TV. A few of the best ones get some air time on Speed or another cable channel. To be a top level oval racing series in America, a series needs to run long (200-500 mile) races on superspeedways. I don't see any 500 mile races on superspeedways on the USAC schedule, do you? I also don't see any top-tier oval racing series of any kind running only short races on short tracks, do you?

USAC and WoO occupy the middle rung on a ladder whose top rung was taken away 35+ years ago. Instead of building a new top rung, some people are advocating replacing the entire existing OW oval ladder (15,000 cars, give or take a few) with formula feedercars. I can't think of a better way to kill open wheel oval racing at the grassroots level, than to do that. It'll be ugly, very ugly.

For the past 35 years, people have perceived that Indy cars, be they USAC, CART or IRL, were the de facto top rung of the OW oval ladder, because they raced on oval tracks. In spite of running on ovals, Indy racing has not been part of the oval racing culture since the rear-engine revolution.

Using his now-famous hammer, Tony George has been pounding the IRL rung into the side of the American OW road racing ladder, trying the drive out the rung that is CART. He has almost gotten it done. The IRL rung is nearly fully into the RR ladder and the CART rung is hanging out on the other side. We are looking at a possible future where an up-and-coming OW road racer won't be able to run road races at the top level, and where an up-and-coming OW oval racer won't be able to run OW cars at the top level.

I hear people saying that the attendance and TV numbers returned by OW oval events don't justify having a top-tier series of the same format. If there were no NASCAR, the current attendance and TV numbers of middle level stock car racing wouldn't justify starting one, either.

If the IRL and CART were both to fail, USAC would finally have the opportunity to push themselves up and form a top-tier series, running 500-mile races on superspeedways with appropriately engineered cars. They have clung to the "Road to Indy" illusion too long, even while becoming part of the "Road to Daytona". They need to build their own road and start pushing up a new top rung of their own. It will probably take 10-15 years or more, but it needs to be done.

My feeling is that there will never be an OW oval series that has the best Americans and the best from other countries. If the cars stay as they are, the best Americans will automatically go to NASCAR. If the equipment is changed to suit the training and driving styles of the best American OW drivers, then the drivers from other countries will not be interested.

I think we have spent the last 35 years passing through a transition, where the ideal balance of American and foreign drivers that so many desire, was just an accidental consequence of a gradual turnover from primarily American to primarily foreign.

[Lucky161]

"I have followed open wheel and NASCAR racing for a long time and I never heard of Yeley, Stewart, Newman, Gordon or any others until they either raced at Indy or raced in NASCAR."

frankie, you must have been following pretty far behind not to have ever heard of them before they got to Indy or nascar. Of course, I'm full of crap, so perhaps you are right.

[Dick Ralstin]

I have always been a fan of USAC, the largest sanctioning body in cantral Indiana.

[ramdacf]

Originally posted by frankie13
Its about time somebody said it.


While Im sure that USAC produces some great drivers, in reality most people have never heard of those stars that come out of there. Do you really think Jeff Gordon and Tony Stewart become stars in USAC? No, they became stars when they went to NASCAR.

This is so true. I went to an IRL race in Atlanta in 98 or 99 when Tony Stewart and JJ Yelley were racing. Guess what - I never noticed either one of them. The only guy I had heard of was AJ Foyt who was then (as now) a car owner. I cheered for his guy - Kenny Brack.

Fast forward a few years - Tony Stewart became famous in NASCAR and JJ Yelley became famous on Track Forum and was mentioned a few times on Speed Channel. He'll be famous if he lights NASCAR on fire, though.

Face it - Adding all the USAC drivers in the world would make the IRL into USAC, it would not make the IRL into NASCAR. It would have smaller crowds, virtually no ratings or sponsors etc. I agree with the original post - if USAC is so great, why hasn't anyone heard of it outside of Indiana or Track Forum.

And finally, didn't the Million Dollar shootout prove that USAC aren't even the best sprint car drivers- the race was won by a WoO guy!!

[SJFast]

"If the cars stay as they are, the best Americans will automatically go to NASCAR. If the equipment is changed to suit the training and driving styles of the best American OW drivers, then the drivers from other countries will not be interested."

Thank you, DonnieB ! That's it in a nutshell. What needs to be added is the fans will also go to NASCAR....as they already have.

[frankie13]

Originally posted by Lucky161
"I have followed open wheel and NASCAR racing for a long time and I never heard of Yeley, Stewart, Newman, Gordon or any others until they either raced at Indy or raced in NASCAR."

frankie, you must have been following pretty far behind not to have ever heard of them before they got to Indy or nascar. Of course, I'm full of crap, so perhaps you are right.

I first heard of Tony Stewart at the 1996 Indy 200 at Disney World. I first heard of Ryan Newman when he entered NASCAR and I first heard of Jeff Gordon when he first raced in BGN.

In reality, I am just like 99 percent of NASCAR fans out there. Althugh it may seem odd to you that I didnt hear of these guys while they were in USAC shows my point. In the midwest, you hear of those guys but outside of that area, nobody else does. Go to South Carolina and ask them if they have heard of JJ Yeley. Then ask them in five years once he has a Cup ride.

Thats not saying we dont need American drivers because we do. But why do they need to come from USAC? Why does the IRL need to rely on another series to feed its drivers? Lets build up the IPS and develope our own talent.

I think the original post was all about the obsession of some on this board that the IRL has to be USAC. We have heard it all here...the IRL should include USAC races in its point system...the IRL should use USAC cars in some of its races...the IRL should have dirt races...the IRL should have drivers from USAC. If you want the IRL to be like USAC, then just watch USAC!