Unconfigured Ad Widget

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Fair play at Kentucky?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Fair play at Kentucky?

    I am all for the Chevy teams being competitive and I had no problem with the IRL allowing the mid-season engine change to the "Ford/Chevy/Cosworth" but they better be careful not to get Toyota and Honda upset. Hornish was in another league on Sunday at Kentucky. Scott Dixon was the only other driver even close. Was it horsepower? Was it handling? Was it an unfair advantage? I hope it wasn't the latter but the IRL better be careful if the Chevy teams or Hornish in particular dominate from here on in. Toyota and Honda spend money promoting the series. I haven't seen many Chevy ads featuring IndyCars.
    "There are two ways to conquer and enslave a nation. One is by the sword. The other is by debt." John Adams 1826
    Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
    www.fairtax.org

  • #2
    First let me say that I don't think it is right that the IRL let Chevy switch in mid-season to the Cosworth. Having said that, Hornish dominating a race with panther is nothing new. They have proven that they have the know how on set-ups and they definitely have the driver. Now if the other Chevy teams start to dominate then you might have something. JMO of course.
    IRL, Champcar and F1 fan

    Comment


    • #3
      If anyone should be whining, it should be Kelly and Penske, or Rahal and Access. Not about Panther, but about Ganassi and Andretti/Green. There seems to be a much greater performance difference between Target and the other Toyota teams, or Andretti/Green and the other Honda teams, than there is between the Gen 4ord Chevies and the Toyotas and Hondas. When was the last time all Penske entries finished running, with no apparent problems, but a lap down to a team using the same engine?
      "Had every Athenian citizen been a Socrates, every Athenian assembly would still have been a mob." - Federalist 55
      “My first reaction as a race car driver was to jump out of the car and use the Foyt technique of driver development - grab him and pound some sense into him.”
      "Make way. I'm Reaganing."

      Comment


      • #4
        IIRC, last year at Homestead Sam had the whole field lapped and would have finished that way had it not been for some late caution periods. You didn't hear Penske complaining about an unfair advantage. The only unfair advantages Hornish has are his driving skills and excellent engineers.

        Everyone needs to get over it and enjoy the championship hunt.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Lemming51
          If anyone should be whining, it should be Kelly and Penske, or Rahal and Access. There seems to be a much greater performance difference between Target and the other Toyota teams, or Andretti/Green and the other Honda teams, than there is between the Gen 4ord Chevies and the Toyotas and Hondas. When was the last time all Penske entries finished running, with no apparent problems, but a lap down to a team using the same engine?
          Actually I am not so sure that the Penske cars would have been a lap down to Dixon. There was a very large gap between Hornish and Dixon when that yellow came out. In fact on the scanner right before the yellow Dixon was told that "Hornish is 12 seconds behind you". I am almost positive that the Penske cars were in front of Dixon at the time.
          IRL, Champcar and F1 fan

          Comment


          • #6
            Don't start with the conspiracy theories! If you want to hear those, listen to RM's show "the truth(?)". I guarantee he will make some insinuation on tonights show.

            I truly believe that handling was the difference.

            As for the new motor, I see nothing different from what Infinity did a few years ago with their motor. There was a "new" motor introduced mid season a few years ago by Infinity.

            IMO, this however has provided another opportunity to the media to "sensationalize" a non story.

            Comment


            • #7
              When NASCAR makes adjustments mid season, they take examples of all the makes to the wind tunnel and/or put them on the chassis dyno. That gives them a clear picture of who has what, and how much a specific rule change will give each manufacturer.

              Does anybody know if the IRL put the Honda, Toyota, Chevy and Cosworth on the same dyno to see just how far apart they really were?

              If you're going to manage competition, you need to make sure you're doing it "fairly."

              Comment


              • #8
                I think the only unfair aspect of what transpired is that Ford does not get their blue oval in the winner's picture. They obviously did their homework, unlike their Detroit brethren.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by JoeBob
                  When NASCAR makes adjustments mid season, they take examples of all the makes to the wind tunnel and/or put them on the chassis dyno. That gives them a clear picture of who has what, and how much a specific rule change will give each manufacturer.

                  Does anybody know if the IRL put the Honda, Toyota, Chevy and Cosworth on the same dyno to see just how far apart they really were?

                  If you're going to manage competition, you need to make sure you're doing it "fairly."
                  I agree!!! I think the IRL should invest in a chassis dyno and when someone starts screaming for help they will have a tool that will rule out chassis setups. If the Chassis Dyno says everybody is within a certain percentage, then no help is coming. If the dyno proves that an engine manufacturer is seriously down on power than let them make an adjustment.

                  That's the only way I would allow serious modifications.
                  I would think by now that this administration would have a clue as to what it takes to get the job done. So, Get-er-done!!!!!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    There are a few things to bear in mind here...

                    The rules weren't changed for Chevy. What they did was legal. Doesn't seem sportsmanlike, but motorsports haven't been sportsmanlike since the days of Briggs Cunningham and Bob Estes.

                    Honda could easily have gone with the Cosworth, just as easily as they went with the Ilmor.

                    That there weren't a huge stack of Chevys at the top of the agate means that the supposed horsepower advantage Chevy has is folklore. No one really knows if it has more or less power than the Toyota...

                    ...mostly because Panther, with Hornish up, has been the operation to beat the last two years running.

                    And it's not like Dixon couldn't keep up with Hornish. Traffic made most of the difference, and had the Ganassi guys been using Dallaras, Hornish's advantage might have been nonexistant.

                    (And the Hornish advantage may merely have been the nut holding the wheel, if you take my meaning.)

                    Team Penske and Gil de Ferran had won two consecutive CART championships and only just lost to Panther/Hornish last season. The best beat the best.

                    Now guys who ought to know better, new to the series, are suddenly reminded of what Team Penske already knew - that Hornish and Panther are the Real Deal. It's something they hadn't counted on, no matter how Hornish found is way to the front.

                    Hey, Penske and Ganassi made careers exploiting the so-called "unfair advantages." If the rules permit something - whether it's an Indy-only pushrod panzer in '94 or a Chevy engine switch this year, it's acceptable.

                    Bear in mind, Toyota and Honda have a season-full of data upon which to improve their engines in the open-parts areas for next season. Chevy will have precious little data, as little time as they'll have the Cosworth design in competition, so look at it this way - with Toyota's and Honda's head start on 2004, Chevy's "advantage" essentially disappears at Homestead next February.

                    Besides p!ssing and moaning is part of racing.

                    One thing's for sure, it's stirred the kettle this season and made an already interesting points battle even more interesting and close.

                    So enjoy Hornish in the series while you can.

                    Sam drove well Sunday in a race that made him look so dominant because there weren't the usual yellows to bunch guys up.

                    Interesting race.

                    Tom B.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Shadow101
                      I think the only unfair aspect of what transpired is that Ford does not get their blue oval in the winner's picture. They obviously did their homework, unlike their Detroit brethren.
                      The fact is that Ford got paid so that Chevy could put their emblem on the engine. If Ford wanted their Blue emblem on the engine then they would have had to put out the $$$$$$ instead of receiving $$$$$$$$$.
                      I would think by now that this administration would have a clue as to what it takes to get the job done. So, Get-er-done!!!!!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by MicroRacer
                        The fact is that Ford got paid so that Chevy could put their emblem on the engine. If Ford wanted their Blue emblem on the engine then they would have had to put out the $$$$$$ instead of receiving $$$$$$$$$.
                        Yes, I realize that. Ford was paid. GM was and should be embarrassed. That was my point. I don't want to debate IRL policy here, but I don't think the league would allow another manufacturer in mid-season so this deal was brokered to make everybody happy. Ford shows off their technology, makes GM eat crow and gets some financial recoup on their investment, GM gets competitive, and TG finally has a three horse race. Everybody wins.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I can remember sitting just out of the 4th
                          turn at Phoenix when Penske first
                          ran in the IRL. Afer both his drivers
                          were out, the whole crew packed-up;
                          but the captain stayed and watch
                          a young Sam Hornish dominate. I'll
                          be surprised if Penske doesn't become
                          a 3 car team next year.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Ydawg
                            I can remember sitting just out of the 4th
                            turn at Phoenix when Penske first
                            ran in the IRL. Afer both his drivers
                            were out, the whole crew packed-up;
                            but the captain stayed and watch
                            a young Sam Hornish dominate. I'll
                            be surprised if Penske doesn't become
                            a 3 car team next year.
                            Unfortunately, you'll be surprised.
                            You can't chase the American Dream in a hard-top!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Tom_B
                              There are a few things to bear in mind here...



                              Bear in mind, Toyota and Honda have a season-full of data upon which to improve their engines in the open-parts areas for next season. Chevy will have precious little data, as little time as they'll have the Cosworth design in competition, so look at it this way - with Toyota's and Honda's head start on 2004, Chevy's "advantage" essentially disappears at Homestead next February.


                              Tom B.
                              Don't bet your lunch money on that premise.
                              That Chevworth hasn't even begun to realize its potential.
                              Their 100% reliability shows they're conservative on the tuning right now.
                              Road racing is doomed...what this country needs is a big new racetrack designed for automobiles instead of horses. C.G. Fisher

                              Comment

                              Unconfigured Ad Widget

                              Collapse
                              Working...
                              X