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Can we ever please all?

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  • Can we ever please all?

    I've argued for years that one of the biggest problems with the Indy Racing League is the lack of definition in its "vision". This has cultivated cliques of varying tastes and desires within an already challenged fan base.

    Road racing makes sense to some and is an abomination to others, on one hand. On the other hand, the lack of US short trackers strongly inhibits the ability of many fans to maintain a passion for the IRL IndyCar Series.

    Now that the addition of road racing seems inevitable, a large segment of the IndyCar fanbase represented on this forum feels alienated, disillusioned, and even betrayed by the IRL.

    Perhaps understandably, in the interest of good business and growth, the IRL will one day soon add venues which require IndyCars to turn right. The core fanbase appears willing to accept road racing on a limited scale, although some refuse to believe that we won't one day soon experience the same influx of road racing that CART once did. And, of course, there are those who would love for the IRL to add as many road races as it sees fit.

    These two groups or IRL fans will likely ride it out with the IRL no matter what. It is those who perceived "The Vision" to mean a re-opening of the traditional "Road to Indy" from the US short tracks to 16th and Geogetown Road who are getting ready to jump off the bandwagon, if they haven't already done so.

    I have considered myself a member of that latter group. I have, in fact, considered throwing myself in front of the bandwagon and letting it crush me... a quick end to my misery.

    However, knowing that road racing is part of the future, and encouraged by idea on this forum concerning the inclusion of Silver Crown racing into the championship, I'm still thinking of ways that the IRL can work for me... work for you... and, yes, even work for them!

    I have come up with the following hypothetical (and hopefully eclectic) IRL schedule. It encompasses the USAC schedule into the IRL slate and adds some choice domestic road races. Silver Crown races could be run within the same week as some IndyCar races (Can you say, "Thursday Night Thunder" ?)

    This schedule assumes alot of things, including...

    1. CART will fold.
    2. No racing outside the US.

    So you don't have to count, there are 8 Speedways, 6 short ovals, 7 road courses, and 1 street race on the schedule for Indy cars. There are 11 races for Silver Crown cars, 6 of them being on dirt. Thats a total of 33 races on this busy schedule.

    Week 1 Miami-Homestead Speedway (Short Oval - Indy)
    Week 2 Phoenix International Raceway (Short Oval/SC)
    Week 2 Phoenix International Raceway (Short Oval - Indy)
    Week 3 Long Beach (Street - Indy)
    Week 4 Tulsa Fairgrounds Speedway (Dirt/SC)
    Week 4 Kansas Speedway (Speedway - Indy)

    Week 5 California Speedway (Speedway - Indy)
    Week 6 Portland International Raceway (Road - Indy)
    Week 7 Cleveland (Road - Indy)
    Week 8 Nashville Superspeedway (Speedway - Indy)

    Week 9 Terre Haute Action Track (Dirt/SC)
    Week 10 Indiana State Fairgrounds (Dirt/SC)
    Week 11 Indianapolis Raceway Park (Short Oval/SC)
    Week 12 Indianapolis Motor Speedway (Speedway - Indy)

    Week 13 Milwaukee Mile (Short Oval - Indy)
    Week 14 Pikes Peak International Raceway (Short Oval/SC)
    Week 14 Pikes Peak International Raceway (Short Oval - Indy)
    Week 15 Laguna Seca (Road - Indy)
    Week 16 Richmond International Raceway (Short Oval/SC)
    Week 16 Richmond International Raceway (Short Oval - Indy)

    Week 17 Michigan International Speedway (Speedway - Indy)
    Week 18 Road America (Road - Indy)
    Week 19 Mid-Ohio (Road - Indy)
    Week 20 DuQuoin State Fairgrounds (Dirt/SC)
    Week 20 Kentucky Speedway (Speedway - Indy)

    Week 21 New York State Fairgrounds (Dirt/SC)
    Week 21 Walkins Glenn (Road - Indy)
    Week 22 Nazareth Speedway (Short Oval/SC)
    Week 22 Nazareth Speedway (Short Oval - Indy)
    Week 23 Illinois State Fairgrounds (Dirt/SC)
    Week 23 Chicagoland Speedway (Speedway - Indy)
    Week 24 Sears Point (Road - Indy)

    Week 25 Texas Motor Speedway (Speedway - Indy)


    Ok, let me have it! No need to be kind... I'll defend it the best I can and concede to any obvious flaws, of which I'm sure there are many.

    Mainly, I'd like to know if you - as fans of the IRL - would ever support such a series.

    Also, do you thing a series like this could ever compete with NASCAR in this country?
    Last edited by manson; 08-14-2003, 05:28 PM.
    Dave Steele Rocks!!!

  • #2
    If the IRL adds road courses without adding short track/front engine events, I will pass on it completely. In fact, I guess I already have. :mad:
    "It's not the split, it's not the lack of marketing, it's not the days the races run on, it's the product." Tommy Kendall

    "....and the DRIVERS are the product !" SJFast

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    • #3
      25 events Dave?
      SENسR MODERATOR......

      "Better To Be Judged By Twelve Than Carried By Six"
      " Only Those Who Will Risk Going Too Far....Can Possibly Find Out How Far One Can Go "...T.S. Elliot....

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      • #4
        It's not what I want but I'd support it. I don't think it's feasible, though. There aren't enough road races to make the road racing fans happy and any more road races would really pizz off the oval track fans. If the fan base isn't going to increase by bringing in the RR fans, I don't think it's worth it. The added expense would be very hard on many teams. The cost of a SC car is about half what it would take to modify each IRL car for road courses. The SC cars are clearly the better bargain.

        I applaud your effort, Manson, but I don't really think it would work and I don't think it would compete with NASCAR. However, it would be far better than what I fear is coming.
        Proud to be a complainer.

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        • #5
          I'm with you manson. In fact, I'm with SJ too.
          Some people will do nearly anything in order to be able to not do anything.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by dog-ring
            25 events Dave?
            Yep, you'd be busy.
            Dave Steele Rocks!!!

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            • #7
              Dave's plan is brilliant. It will depend on what lights up the sponsors eyes to make anything work.

              In regards to the two scenarios mentioned, I think many suffer from CART manifesto parinoia. Just because we have two or three road races makes us no different than NASCAR, which is where all of the short trackers are presently going anyway. I don't see the IRL basturdizing it's series to a bunch of street races to beef up the schedule. This is what I think the CART manifesto parinoia consist of.

              IRL points awarded by dirt is the third element which will make the series explode with popularity. If it can be mastered, the dirt stars will be in the IRL before they even enter it. If the IRL could award points with a USAC event much the same way F1 did with the 500 years ago, dirt trackers will be getting points for the IRL and not even be in the series (IRL could do that to move things along).

              You can't make them all happy, but you sure can get creative, that is if the $$$$ comes along in the way of sponsorship.
              Get your head out of your past!!!

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              • #8
                Originally posted by slinger
                There aren't enough road races to make the road racing fans happy
                Ok, we can scratch all of the road courses!

                I'm not worried about making road course fans happy as much I'm worried about making all existing IRL fans happy.
                Dave Steele Rocks!!!

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                • #9

                  Manson's new IRL Gorilla,
                  NASCAR watch out
                  You Da MAN Son !
                  I am blessed to have witnessed "The Greatest Spectacle In Racing" 50 times!

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                  • #10
                    There are two main factors that weigh heavily in my decision to say no to roadcourses.

                    1. The talk of adding road courses comes at a time when short track drivers are having the toughest time ever securing an IRL ride. Impossible = toughest. The addition of road courses, even a couple means short track drivers will have a tougher time securing an Indy Car ride then say getting struck by lightning, on a clear day, in a coal mine.

                    2. I am wary of H and T and most of the Johnny-come-lately car owners that are in the IRL now. Will their action plan continue to be "make the IRL as close to the good old days as possible."

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                    • #11
                      Manson, I noticed you're from Clayton. I grew up in Clayton. Maybe we could add Putnamville to your schedule
                      Milwaukee was raced on an oval and Kalkhoven appears to favour street races.

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                      • #12
                        You did forget a week Dave..........(Road) Indianapolis

                        along about September....................
                        SENسR MODERATOR......

                        "Better To Be Judged By Twelve Than Carried By Six"
                        " Only Those Who Will Risk Going Too Far....Can Possibly Find Out How Far One Can Go "...T.S. Elliot....

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by dog-ring
                          You did forget a week Dave..........(Road) Indianapolis

                          along about September....................
                          The Indy Double
                          35 lap SC race on roadcourse followed by a 100 lap Indy Car Race
                          combine the results and you have a winner
                          I am blessed to have witnessed "The Greatest Spectacle In Racing" 50 times!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by dog-ring
                            You did forget a week Dave..........(Road) Indianapolis

                            along about September....................
                            Could be a possibility after Bernie dumps IMS.

                            We'd have to add another IRP or Indiana State Fairgrounds that weekend... as long as we're in town.
                            Dave Steele Rocks!!!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Vogler fan
                              Manson, I noticed you're from Clayton. I grew up in Clayton. Maybe we could add Putnamville to your schedule
                              I'm not sure we want the big cars in there. I love the venue, however. Doesn't get anymore grass roots than Lincoln Park. Btw, I met Elenor Vogler there a couple of years ago and bought Richard's biography. Extrodinary lady!
                              Dave Steele Rocks!!!

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