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OLD School fix for the IRL

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  • OLD School fix for the IRL

    Blame it on my roots, I showed up in boots.... oops wrong song, but it fits the current IRL/CART saga. When will Tony George wake up and find out that we true fans of open wheel racing don't want to be like CART or F1. We want to see American drivers, running ovals period! We want to see the drivers compete not only in IRL cars, we want the championship to include the REAL DIRT CHAMP CARS, (the name was stolen by CART by the way). We want a true AMERICAN champion. Let the F1 guys go away and play in Europe. Cheapen up the cars, get rid of all the computerized intelligence (Data) and get back to good old fashioned RACING. Where the mechanics were just as important as the drivers. Guys like George Bignotti were household names. Other than a handful of carry overs from the old days, I bet if you walked up to someone on the street and asked them today who won the Indy 500 this year, you would be hard pressed to find someone who had the right answer. (I know it was a Penske driver, but can't pull the name myself...)
    I can tell you that Foyt, the Unsers, Rutherford, Sneva, Mears, Bigelow, Snider, etc were all household names where I grew up. (Sorry if I left anyone else out) (OK Ziggy?)

    I know there are a lot of like minded guys that feel the same way. Make a deal with USAC and bring back the championship based on drivers running both series. It worked, and I can bet that the existing money would stay, and new and old money would flock in to support the AMERICAN style of racing series.

    NASCAR is a good example of that. For the most part, it is OVAL racing, and mostly American drivers. No offense Christian, but it is true. I think Mario Andretti was one that proved he could compete on our terms.. I see no reason others can't do the same... but the point is, making the series more like CART or F1 is the WRONG way to go, and one that will in the long run drive more fans to the NASCAR whatever-cup seats... and that Mr. George is the decision that is on your shoulders. Get out of that million dollar corporate suite and start talking to the real fans that have grown up on the thrills of seeing AJ Foyt dualling it out with Don Branson at the Springfield mile for a hundred laps of position swapping action. Or maybe watching Bob Tattersall ride the rim and pass the entire field from the back in one lap. Guys like Rich Vogler, or Kevin Olsen, who were masters on dirt put on wild shows over the years.

    I bet old Tony Holman, who is your namesake, would roll over in his grave to see what his series has become. Shows of 15 to 20 cars are a JOKE! I remember when fields used to be full, and pits were overflowing with cars. Heck, you had to run your butts off just to qualify....

    Heck I have seen better racing at a quarter midget race lately.

    And race fans, you have to voice your opinion to the people that matter. Call/email the speedway, get the word out that this is what the paying public wants to see, and is willing to spend their hard earned dollars for. Until then, let's fill the seats of the local tracks that still run the dirt champ cars, midgets, and sprint cars, and tell the sponsors that you want to see our heroes like JJ Yeley, Tony Stuart, the Fike brothers etc back in open wheel chariots of glory.

  • #2
    Re: OLD School fix for the IRL

    Originally posted by crumrinegl
    We want to see the drivers compete not only in IRL cars, we want the championship to include the REAL DIRT CHAMP CARS
    I don't.
    "Promote what you love instead of bashing what you hate."

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    • #3
      "Re: OLD School fix for the IRL

      quote:
      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Originally posted by crumrinegl
      We want to see the drivers compete not only in IRL cars, we want the championship to include the REAL DIRT CHAMP CARS
      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


      I don't."

      I do...

      Comment


      • #4
        "Heck I have seen better racing at a quarter midget race lately."

        Better racing than the usual IRL nail biters?

        I think you're stretchin' it a little there, pard.



        "You people worry too much. Strive for change. Root for your favorites. Enjoy the racing. Drop the flag." rev-ed, 3/04

        Comment


        • #5
          "Better racing than the usual IRL nail biters? "

          Theres been one this year...

          Comment


          • #6
            Gee, I'll have to review my tape library and rethink the error of my ways.

            Maybe I was just too easily entertained by frequent passing, pit lane drama, side-by-side racing at 200mph+, and finishes undecided prior to the last 20 laps.

            Of course, the dominance of one team running away with the points lead should have tipped me off.

            "You people worry too much. Strive for change. Root for your favorites. Enjoy the racing. Drop the flag." rev-ed, 3/04

            Comment


            • #7
              "Gee, I'll have to review my tape library and rethink the error of my ways."

              Michigan was a great race, the best of the season in any series...no other race even comes close to what happened last year...

              Comment


              • #8
                "...no other race even comes close to what happened last year..."

                His comparison to which I responded was to "a quarter midget race", not last year's IRL racing.

                But if you're now discussing in general the quality of IRL racing, it still excites and entertains me.

                It's still my favorite type of auto racing and looks to be so in the future. Of course it could be my age and the effect it has on my vision.
                Last edited by KnockOff; 08-14-2003, 10:17 AM.
                "You people worry too much. Strive for change. Root for your favorites. Enjoy the racing. Drop the flag." rev-ed, 3/04

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: OLD School fix for the IRL

                  Originally posted by crumrinegl
                  Blame it on my roots, I showed up in boots.... oops wrong song, but it fits the current IRL/CART saga. When will Tony George wake up and find out that we true fans of open wheel racing don't want to be like CART or F1. We want to see American drivers, running ovals period! We want to see the drivers compete not only in IRL cars, we want the championship to include the REAL DIRT CHAMP CARS, (the name was stolen by CART by the way). We want a true AMERICAN champion. Let the F1 guys go away and play in Europe. Cheapen up the cars, get rid of all the computerized intelligence (Data) and get back to good old fashioned RACING. Where the mechanics were just as important as the drivers. Guys like George Bignotti were household names. Other than a handful of carry overs from the old days, I bet if you walked up to someone on the street and asked them today who won the Indy 500 this year, you would be hard pressed to find someone who had the right answer. (I know it was a Penske driver, but can't pull the name myself...)
                  I can tell you that Foyt, the Unsers, Rutherford, Sneva, Mears, Bigelow, Snider, etc were all household names where I grew up. (Sorry if I left anyone else out) (OK Ziggy?)

                  I know there are a lot of like minded guys that feel the same way. Make a deal with USAC and bring back the championship based on drivers running both series. It worked, and I can bet that the existing money would stay, and new and old money would flock in to support the AMERICAN style of racing series.

                  NASCAR is a good example of that. For the most part, it is OVAL racing, and mostly American drivers. No offense Christian, but it is true. I think Mario Andretti was one that proved he could compete on our terms.. I see no reason others can't do the same... but the point is, making the series more like CART or F1 is the WRONG way to go, and one that will in the long run drive more fans to the NASCAR whatever-cup seats... and that Mr. George is the decision that is on your shoulders. Get out of that million dollar corporate suite and start talking to the real fans that have grown up on the thrills of seeing AJ Foyt dualling it out with Don Branson at the Springfield mile for a hundred laps of position swapping action. Or maybe watching Bob Tattersall ride the rim and pass the entire field from the back in one lap. Guys like Rich Vogler, or Kevin Olsen, who were masters on dirt put on wild shows over the years.

                  I bet old Tony Holman, who is your namesake, would roll over in his grave to see what his series has become. Shows of 15 to 20 cars are a JOKE! I remember when fields used to be full, and pits were overflowing with cars. Heck, you had to run your butts off just to qualify....

                  Heck I have seen better racing at a quarter midget race lately.

                  And race fans, you have to voice your opinion to the people that matter. Call/email the speedway, get the word out that this is what the paying public wants to see, and is willing to spend their hard earned dollars for. Until then, let's fill the seats of the local tracks that still run the dirt champ cars, midgets, and sprint cars, and tell the sponsors that you want to see our heroes like JJ Yeley, Tony Stuart, the Fike brothers etc back in open wheel chariots of glory.
                  A few points I would like to make:

                  1) Not everyone on this board wants to see all-ovals, all-american, all-dirt track drivers. In fact, many of the polls taken here indicated about 50/50 on those who wanted all-ovals and those who wanted some road courses. Also, another pole revealed most fans wanted the best drivers and not just short trackers.

                  2) The days of the small teams are over. This was one of the visions' flaws. As any series grows, it will naturally attract bigger and better teams. It is impossible to have only small low budget teams compete in a proffesional and growing series. Plus, the visions forget about what happens to those small budget teams when rough economic times sets in (as we have recently).

                  3) Dont tell me Tony George is some suit who doesnt care. I personally sat behind him in the turn four bleachers at Nazereth last year during the freezing cold and a little hail storm. You dont get any closer to the fans than that.

                  4) The fields are not 15-20 cars. The current 21 is the lowest we have seen in a while and I think it was appropriate to have expected more this season and to expect more in the future. For example, Ganassi went from 4 to 2, Kelley went from 3 to 2, Cheever went from 3 to 1, and Foyt went from 3 to 1. Right there is seven cars we lost (maybe it can be blamed on economic conditions).

                  5) Some want to add spint car and dirt track races to the series. Are we going to have two types of cars then? Kind of an added expense. Until someone can show me a formula that will allow cars to run at a dirt track one weekend and go to Texas to run 225 mph, I am assuming this can not happen. Some hear want to turn IndyCar racing into a sprint car series. Just watch sprint car racing then if thats what you want!

                  6) The racing is not as good this year as last but still better than average. Im not sure if we will ever be able to match last years. However, I am not willing to give up the current racing just so a few short trackers can have their fun.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Re: OLD School fix for the IRL

                    Originally posted by frankie13
                    Not everyone on this board wants. . .
                    I think this summarizes TF very well. Too bad not everyone notices that.
                    "If TF members were given solid gold cars, some would complain about the color." - stnkypete

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Personally (and I've said this before), the days I long for are the ones where drivers could freely move about among the different series. Wouldn't it be cool to see a former "spridget" shoe win races like Indy and Daytona and then go off and grab themselves a F1 world championship to boot?

                      ....oops, that's already been done, hasn't it??

                      "IRL is better at everything except selling themselves." -- Jennifer Floyd Engel, ESPN/103.3 FM

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I gotta go with "crumrinegl" on this one !
                        "It's not the split, it's not the lack of marketing, it's not the days the races run on, it's the product." Tommy Kendall

                        "....and the DRIVERS are the product !" SJFast

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: OLD School fix for the IRL

                          Originally posted by crumrinegl
                          we true fans of open wheel racing
                          "we", is there a mouse in your pocket?
                          the man in expensive shoes

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            In my opinion
                            These moves did more damage to OWR than the USAC-CART-IRL divisions.

                            1) Banned Dirt

                            As Dick R.says
                            "On the Monday after the Hoosier Hundred, Sept. 14, 1970, USAC dropped a bomb. After the 1970 season the dirt races would no longer count toward the USAC National Driving Championship.”

                            But, sadly, 1970 also was the end of an era and Big Al Unser became the last man to be crowned a true USAC National Driving Champion.

                            Al became the last driver to win his crown on the ovals, on the road courses, on the pavement, on the Yard of Bricks --- and on the dirt.

                            Time marched on, but it wasn't as much fun anymore.


                            2) Banned rear Engines

                            In 1974, the rear-engine sprint cars were banned
                            The front-only rule for sprinters became the most significant factor in diminishing midgets and sprints as a path to the Big OW Cars.

                            Then why did they do it ?
                            The fans:
                            Many simply didn't like the look of the rear-engined cars. At one event, a fan poll was held and the FE cars were voted the favorites.
                            The drivers:
                            Some of the drivers didn't like the feel of the RE cars.
                            The car owners:
                            With the likelihood of the RE cars eventually becoming dominant, it would require the expense of dumping their old FE cars and buying new RE cars if they wished to remain competitive.
                            The promoters:
                            What if many of the lower budget teams could not afford newer RE cars? It would be pointless for them compete at such a disadvantage, and they might not even show up. The promoters were worried that a switch to new equipment would kill the car count, and thus kill the show and the attendance.
                            Nearly a quarter century later, the effects of this decision can still be felt. Sprint drivers aren't hired by car owners to drive in the 500 like they once were. Even with the introduction of the IRL, the majority of owners have chosen those with backgrounds in the formula cars of the SCCA or Europe.
                            Fact:
                            Indy car owners still seek tangible experience in the handling of a rear-engine open-wheel car on pavement.

                            http://www.netaxs.com/~gg1/race/resc.htm


                            It's never to late to correct a mistake the time is NOW !
                            I am blessed to have witnessed "The Greatest Spectacle In Racing" 50 times!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Indy Red as a result of the change Jackie Howerton became the first driver to win the Hoosier 100 that did not race at Indy, and that only took a couple of years. The IRL?CART split are mearly eight years of a 40 year old problem.

                              And I too agree with this
                              Not everyone on this board wants to see all-ovals, all-american, all-dirt track drivers
                              "Remember, your kids can get student loans, but there's no such thing as a retirement loan."

                              Comment

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