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  • IRL feeder series

    If CART goes away or can't afford to continue with Toyota Atlantics what will happen to that series? Could it become a feeder for IndyCar?

  • #2
    I would imagine that those teams would move to IPS or go in another direction, based on road racing preference or desire.

    TA and IPS only have about 14-15 cars for each race maybe if they combine they can have fields of 26-30.
    "Remember, your kids can get student loans, but there's no such thing as a retirement loan."

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    • #3
      With the Toyota connection, it made me wonder.
      Toyata and nissan or just Toyota? Or just Nissan?

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      • #4
        Once the IPS is firmly established I think we'll see another feeder series using spec engines and chassis but running about 10% slower than IPS. I don't know much about them but would Atlantics fit into that senario?

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Tex
          With the Toyota connection, it made me wonder.
          Toyata and nissan or just Toyota? Or just Nissan?
          On a side note, it appears that Toyota is on the short list for Request For Proposals for the upcoming Formula 2 series that will replace F3000.
          "The face of a child can say it all. Especially the mouth part of the face" - Jack Handey

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          • #6
            Originally posted by vegasduo
            Once the IPS is firmly established I think we'll see another feeder series using spec engines and chassis but running about 10% slower than IPS. I don't know much about them but would Atlantics fit into that senario?
            The IPS cars are already slower than supermodifieds on a typical mile oval, but much more costly than the supers. A feeder to IPS would end up being slower than Silver Crown, and still significantly more costly. A feeder to that feeder would end up being slower than sprint cars, and likely way more expensive. I don't think we're headed in the right direction here.

            Then you have to put them on the undercard to a late model race in order to get enough eyeballs at the track to see the formula feedercars race.
            Definition of support series: A series that needs the support of the headliner class to draw a crowd.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by DonnieB
              The IPS cars are already slower than supermodifieds on a typical mile oval, but much more costly than the supers. A feeder to IPS would end up being slower than Silver Crown, and still significantly more costly. A feeder to that feeder would end up being slower than sprint cars, and likely way more expensive. I don't think we're headed in the right direction here.

              Then you have to put them on the undercard to a late model race in order to get enough eyeballs at the track to see the formula feedercars race.


              Excellent post as usual, Donnie...
              "It was actually fun, because you're back fully driving again in these trucks. Ninety percent of the tracks we go to in the IRL, you're flat-out. I was having to lift off the corners some here." - Buddy Rice

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              • #8
                Man, that was one quick reply, RW, I hadn't even gotten back to the original thread from posting it.
                Definition of support series: A series that needs the support of the headliner class to draw a crowd.

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                • #9
                  You can't run a Super on anything bigger than a mile.

                  The IRL's feeder series MUST run bigger tracks like Michigan, Kansas, TMS, Nashville, etc.

                  Running Supers at those places would require a lot of body bags.
                  We flipped our finger to the King of England
                  Stole our country from the Indians
                  With god on our side and guns in our hands
                  We took it for our own!

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by DonnieB
                    The IPS cars are already slower than supermodifieds on a typical mile oval, but much more costly than the supers. A feeder to IPS would end up being slower than Silver Crown, and still significantly more costly. A feeder to that feeder would end up being slower than sprint cars, and likely way more expensive. I don't think we're headed in the right direction here.

                    Then you have to put them on the undercard to a late model race in order to get enough eyeballs at the track to see the formula feedercars race.
                    I have no doubt most of what you're saying is true. But the point of a lower level feeder for IndyCar would be to acclimate young drivers to rear engine winged formula cars which are capable of running on the largest tracks. IMO, the IPS cars are way to fast to be suitable for young drivers who don't have much if any experience with that type of car. Such a series would run on the same card with IPS and IndyCar.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by DonnieB
                      The IPS cars are already slower than supermodifieds on a typical mile oval, but much more costly than the supers. A feeder to IPS would end up being slower than Silver Crown, and still significantly more costly. A feeder to that feeder would end up being slower than sprint cars, and likely way more expensive. I don't think we're headed in the right direction here.

                      Then you have to put them on the undercard to a late model race in order to get enough eyeballs at the track to see the formula feedercars race.
                      Translation, if you want to drive a REAL IndyCar, drive a Super.
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                      1.New Hampshire, 2.Charlotte, 3.Dover, 4.Disney World, 5.Las Vegas, 6.Atlanta, 7.Gateway, 8.Nazereth, 9.Phoenix, 10.Fontana, 11.Pikes Peak, 12.Michigan.

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                      • #12
                        "You can't run a Super on anything bigger than a mile.

                        The IRL's feeder series MUST run bigger tracks like Michigan, Kansas, TMS, Nashville, etc.

                        Running Supers at those places would require a lot of body bags."

                        I think most of us see your point Step, but which would be easier. Fixing the IPS to be affordable or fixing the supers to be safer for superspeedways?
                        Some people will do nearly anything in order to be able to not do anything.

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                        • #13
                          I wasn't talking about running supers at Michigan, I was replying to a post that suggested that IPS needs a RE feeder series, which would be running on short tracks, and would need to be slower than IPS, which already is slower than supers on the sort of tracks that the feeder to IPS would be running on. Further, the idea has already been tried. Mark Alderson's rear-engined series was stillborn due to lack of interest, and fans just didn't care about FF2000 on ovals when it was part of the Hooters series.

                          As RaceWriter has said, it's like scheduling a football game and then having two soccer teams take the field once all the paying customers have taken their seats.

                          The IRL and CART have both tried to convince the world that they are the top rung of the open wheel oval ladder, but neither of them are. The IRL is looking like it will soon inherit the top rung of the American open wheel RR ladder, with a series that runs mostly ovals.

                          CART and the IRL both need to decide which culture that they want to belong to, and create equipment and schedules consistent with that culture. If that means the Indy 500 runs on the IMS road course, so be it. If that means front engined Indy cars, so be it. They need to pick one and go with it. Why anyone would want to take road racing cars and drivers and run an oval series with them is beyond me. There isn't any way at this time to build a top-tier open wheel series that serves both cultures.
                          Definition of support series: A series that needs the support of the headliner class to draw a crowd.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Lucky161
                            "You can't run a Super on anything bigger than a mile.

                            The IRL's feeder series MUST run bigger tracks like Michigan, Kansas, TMS, Nashville, etc.

                            Running Supers at those places would require a lot of body bags."

                            I think most of us see your point Step, but which would be easier. Fixing the IPS to be affordable or fixing the supers to be safer for superspeedways?
                            Please explain how running super modifieds as a feeder series for IndyCar racing would help to prepare young drivers learn how to drive a rear engine winged formula car? By definition a feeder series main purpose is to prep young or inexperienced drivers for the top level series.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by DonnieB
                              I wasn't talking about running supers at Michigan, I was replying to a post that suggested that IPS needs a RE feeder series, which would be running on short tracks, and would need to be slower than IPS, which already is slower than supers on the sort of tracks that the feeder to IPS would be running on. Further, the idea has already been tried. Mark Alderson's rear-engined series was stillborn due to lack of interest, and fans just didn't care about FF2000 on ovals when it was part of the Hooters series.

                              As RaceWriter has said, it's like scheduling a football game and then having two soccer teams take the field once all the paying customers have taken their seats.

                              The IRL and CART have both tried to convince the world that they are the top rung of the open wheel oval ladder, but neither of them are. The IRL is looking like it will soon inherit the top rung of the American open wheel RR ladder, with a series that runs mostly ovals.

                              CART and the IRL both need to decide which culture that they want to belong to, and create equipment and schedules consistent with that culture. If that means the Indy 500 runs on the IMS road course, so be it. If that means front engined Indy cars, so be it. They need to pick one and go with it. Why anyone would want to take road racing cars and drivers and run an oval series with them is beyond me. There isn't any way at this time to build a top-tier open wheel series that serves both cultures.
                              Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati

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