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What if? Nascar rules?

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  • What if? Nascar rules?

    Just suppose that after three races next season it is clear that Toyota and Honda are in a completely different category from Chevy. Toyota has won every race, and all the Chevy's have been lapped every race.
    Would the IRL start making Nascar rules? Would we go to the Speedway with 1" wickers on all the Japanese engined cars, and no wickers on the Chevy's?


  • #2
    Highly doubt it.

    The IRL is a race what you brung series.

    That was evident last year with the G Forces.

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    • #3
      Eric is right. Infiniti also, was inferior to Chev...I mean Olds for several years. They had to work at it to become as good of an engine rather than getting freebees handed to them.

      -StatMan
      Mirror, mirror, on the wall, who is the Keenest of them all?

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Dreyerfan:
        <STRONG>
        The IRL is a race what you brung series.
        That was evident last year with the G Forces.</STRONG>
        Actually, they did give G-Force some help last year. It wasn't a big public rule change, but they did let them run some pieces which were previously not allowed. Gave them less drag and more downforce.

        Maybe I've answered my own question...

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        • #5
          Posted by YellowShirt:
          Just suppose that after three races next season it is clear that Toyota and Honda are in a completely different category from Chevy. Toyota has won every race, and all the Chevy's have been lapped every race.
          Would the IRL start making Nascar rules? Would we go to the Speedway with 1" wickers on all the Japanese engined cars, and no wickers on the Chevy's?
          Contrary to popular opinion, the the reports of Chevy's untimely death have been grossly exaggerated.

          Toyota, schmoyota. Honda, schmonda.

          Everyone's starting from ground zero next year. Chevy has a bunch of experience, along with several builders working to build the proverbial better mouse trap. The max separation out of the gate next year will be maybe 20HP. Good engineering (i.e., setups) and good pit stops will overcome that, regardless of which manufacturer holds the advantage.

          Now, my mom says the Infiniti will be rebadged (reported in a previous thread), and jmart's mom is seldom wrong! There's one more to throw in the mix.

          What do you say that we just enjoy the last 850 miles of racing as someone else previously so aptly pointed out, and save the "who's got the biggest, baddest engine" BS, until the off season. Until next year, no one, and I mean NO ONE, has a CLUE. So any talk of any trailing maunfacturer, whether it be engine or chassis, getting a mid-season break by league officials is pointless. Based on history to date, what makes anyone think the IRL would change their track record?

          jmart

          [ August 22, 2002: Message edited by: jmart ]

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          • #6
            no need to worry, it won't happen, were you one of them to "suppose" that the Penske team would win every race this season? Do you "suppose" Sam Hornish will be shut out next year?

            In every previous attempt at entering a new series, with new engines, Toyota has been slow out of the blocks, maybe that is why they are making the effort they are. I will grant that they have a great team and driver lineup and have kicked up the level of support Chevy will have to come up with, but lets say Chevy will keep up until we see otherwise.

            Should suppositions be spot on, the IRL won't do a NAGMAR (National Association of General Motors Auto Racing), like they did last week at Michigan, of all places.

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            • #7
              Perhaps the Chevy will have better gas milage than the Toyota and Honda engines. IT has helped them this year vs. the Infinity.

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              • #8
                The reason that NASCAR makes the rules changes to "help" certian makes is because NASCAR mandates the shape of the car. In other words, the teams/suppliers can't "work harder" to make the car faster. An aero profile is an aero profile and it means plenty in NASCAR (where the cars are big).

                This situation isn't mirrored in the IRL.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by YellowShirt:
                  <STRONG>Just suppose that after three races next season it is clear that Toyota and Honda are in a completely different category from Chevy.
                  </STRONG>
                  I seriously doubt that this is going to happen. Remember, back in 1997 when the new car rules first came in, conventional wisdom was that Nissan was going to eat Olds's lunch. Now, I'm not knocking the abilities of Toyota and Honda, but Chevy does have the benefit of six years' experience with these types of engines, plus a network of third-party rebuilders and tuners (read: "free engineering") that is the envy of every supplier in racing. (I'm curious to see if the "not invented here" syndrome is going to sneak in the door at Toyota and Honda the way it did at Infiniti. Toyota at least seems to be taking measures to prevent it.)

                  As for the G-Force body bits, there are body parts that the chassis makers are allowed to tinker with during the season. Both Dallara and R&S have done so in past years. Dallara apparently chose not to this year, probably because (1) what they already had was working, and (2) they didn't want to take engineering hours away from their 2003 design.

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                  • #10
                    Someone else here mentioned that "everyone starts from scratch next season." I thought so too, but is that really true? Aren't the 2003 Chevy engines really the ones Hornish is running right now ?? If not, then does anybody know what the main changes are going to be ??
                    "Don't believe the hype!"

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                    • #11
                      Mandated minimum pin diameters, new deck height, two injectors/cylinder, lower weight, lower CG, basically a new engine. Some internals may transfer over, but everyone's starting from scratch. What Chevy would have is good data comparing their model's performance against actuals, so their experience in this formula should be a benefit. What will be interesting is once tehse parts are distributed to independnet builders, how quickly will they be able to come up with new internals (cams, rods, pistoons) which will extract the maximum of the engine's potential. Also, what software changes will be needed in engine mapping to extract the same.

                      Then at some point, regardless of how much smart engineering and $$$ you throw at an engine, you hit the wall of diminishing returns. Good chassis setup and good pit stops will overcome a 10-20HP deficit.

                      jmart

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                      • #12
                        I think you've all got it wrong.
                        Suppose this year's Infiniti had been reliable - that's not too big a stretch. Now suppose Penske and Kelley had been running it. How many races would GM have won?
                        The Toyota engine has already been run on the track. Honda isn't even on the dyno yet, and GM just isn't ready to spend $100 million on development (they haven't spent that since the IRL started).
                        I can't prove to you that the Toyota will be the best, but I wouldn't be near as optimistic for Chevy as most of you guys. They're going to get reamed.

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                        • #13
                          Mr. Shirt,

                          I think the IRL will play with the wicker, rev-lmtr, aero etc...to level the field. AND I think it is a good thing!

                          Right or wrong I believe marketing the league (and therein the manufactures) is much more important than marketing individual manufactures independently. And I believe IMS/ IRL/ PENSE/ BUD/ FIRESTONE...have said this to the manufactures in so many words...Lets build engines so you can make money and sell cars...And lets ALL keep in mind that it's the LEAGUE that markets ALL OUR COMPANIES.

                          NASCAR has proven this. Partiy is part of what sells NASCAR...part of that which makes it a multi BILLION dollar baby. NASCAR plays with the cars to no end...WHY...so nobody looks bad, and therefore everybody WIN$$$$.

                          Humbly,

                          Dizz Fan
                          "There's no doubt he (Herta) spun on purpose," said Dan Wheldon, …one of the Andretti Green Racing mechanics confessed he was "ashamed" that his team resorted to those tactics.

                          "It's not my fault" ~ Danica

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                          • #14
                            I agree with just about everything you sat Dizz Dude. It still sucks though if you see your hard earned advantage blown away by rules changes just vecause one player isn't trying as hard as the rest.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by YellowShirt:
                              <STRONG>I agree with just about everything you sat Dizz Dude. It still sucks though if you see your hard earned advantage blown away by rules changes just vecause one player isn't trying as hard as the rest.

                              </STRONG>
                              Yellow Dude,

                              To the contrary, DEI has excelled on the super speedways, because of their hard work...Keep the cars as equal as possible and let the team managers, shock men, pit crew, aero folk, DRIVER make the difference thereby exhalting the BEST team...Not just the best engine. (see NASCAR #24/ PENSE INDY 01,02/ CHIP 00)

                              JMHO

                              Humbly,

                              Dizz Fan
                              "There's no doubt he (Herta) spun on purpose," said Dan Wheldon, …one of the Andretti Green Racing mechanics confessed he was "ashamed" that his team resorted to those tactics.

                              "It's not my fault" ~ Danica

                              Comment

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