500 Qualifying… It's Not The Format

[ghost]

The format is fine… it's just puzzling to me how the powers that be continue to tinker and gimmick with what had been working for a lot of years. Now they are talking about more changes for 2014. That's cool…not against change, but it's just not going to work. Until they find a way to lower costs, get more teams and drivers to the track, little will change.

[ICS001]

Cost-cutting has already been happening, and it's apparently unpopular with the "old school" crowd or CCWS/CART refugees. Is $5 million/year (in the 1990s a top CART team spent about 8 times that much) not cheap enough for a top tier series? With the current schedule and the aim to break IMS speed records in the next few years, making it even cheaper isn't realistic. People are loudly complaining about the performance of the cars as it is.

[Indyknut]

While we don't have true knowledge of the contractual obligations that Indy ca..... er, I mean Hulman racing has with it's chassis and engine manufacturers, it would seem clear that they're stuck with this pile of goo spec formula they currently have now for quite a few more years. BTW, I can only go on statements made about changes to that spec formula and those changes being X number of years down the road in making that assumption.

I do believe that more participants entered along with a better variety of engine/chassis combo's would peak interest in racing fans, it seems pretty unrealistic to be wishing and dreaming about that when the reality is what it is though.

How do you sell a boring and uninspired package and make it interesting and compelling enough to not only gain new fans but at the same time, retain your current fanbase which is obviously dwindling away, probably do the the uninteresting product?

[Z28]

If you're staring too closely at the cars, the engines and the speed you miss what's going on with the change.

Going back 30 years, when there were 4 days of qualifying, records were broken and there were big stars driving the pole day crowd was always HUGE. But the next day they were a fraction of Saturday's turnout when 6-8 cars driven by less than star drivers would start filling in the 25-33rd place in the field. This gets glossed over when waxing nostalgic about the good old days. It was the same when they went to the 24 Saturday and 9 at the end for the pole. Except the Sunday crowd to see the last three rows run was only a small portion of the not so big Saturday crowd because the big names weren't out there doing anything.

What this change is about is drawing a bigger crowd for the 2 days of qualifying instead of one. The entire field will be on the track on Saturday to get a speed and one of the 33 spots and then the entire field will be on the track on Sunday to determine the order in which they start. The IMS aim is to get more people to come out for the combined 2 days because all the drivers will be out there both days, instead of the lopsided Saturdays of the past.


It's hard to say at this point if limited mileage engine leases will still apply or make a big difference, some short budget teams with one engine for qualifying and the race would have to shift their limited practice times to Saturday to get in the top 33 instead in the past just running Sunday and get in.

[Grinder-Tank]

The racing has been great. What the current car does with low horse power shows technology.

[DaveL]

Going back 30 years, when there were 4 days of qualifying, records were broken and there were big stars driving the pole day crowd was always HUGE. But the next day they were a fraction of Saturday's turnout when 6-8 cars driven by less than star drivers would start filling in the 25-33rd place in the field. This gets glossed over when waxing nostalgic about the good old days.

No one is glossing over this fact. When discussing qualifying day crowds it's always within the context that there's Pole Day, and then the other three days. Apples to apples comparisons are made so we compare Pole Day to Pole Day, Bump Day to Bump Day with the knowledge that we're discussing two different things.

What those of waxing nostalgic are saying is first off, there were years when the track record was never going to be broken and crowds showed up anyway. And second, we're saying that it doesn't matter what format you try when you have 33 spec cars (barely) going for 33 starting spots. Everyone driving the same car essentially the same speed is not compelling or interesting. Everyone entered making the field in said cars is even less compelling or interesting.

[Spike]

The racing has been great. What the current car does with low horse power shows technology.

And the big increases in ratings and growing attendance numbers reflect the excitement!

[Muskie4041]

No need to run anything but one qualifying day and the race.

[atrackforumfan]

Another way of looking at it is that Pole Day benefited from unmet demand for Race Day, combined with a lack of local entertainment alternatives.

[tnindyman]

[QUOTE=Z28;3466757]If you're staring too closely at the cars, the engines and the speed you miss what's going on with the change

Going back 30 years, when there were 4 days of qualifying, records were broken and there were big stars driving the pole day crowd was always HUGE. But the next day they were a fraction of Saturday's turnout when 6-8 cars driven by less than star drivers would start filling in the 25-33rd place in the field. This gets glossed over when waxing nostalgic about the good old days. It was the same when they went to the 24 Saturday and 9 at the end for the pole. Except the Sunday crowd to see the last three rows run was only a small portion of the not so big Saturday crowd because the big names weren't out there doing anything.



Not sure I totally agree here about crowds. Granted the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th day crowds were down considerably from first day, but, looking at a few 4th day qual photos from the 60's and 70s, the crowds looked a lot larger than pole day does now.

[atrackforumfan]

The track had bigger crowds on all of its off days because you seldom saw racecars on four channels of TV, didn't have home video and YouTube of racecars, etc.

[Sea Fury]

Do you think it would have been better to grandfather out the old cars and engines over a couple of years, rather than requiring the purchase of new DW12s when they first came out? The top teams still would have bought new cars, but at least smaller operations would have had a proven, cheaper car to go racing with....maybe?

[Turn13]

Another way of looking at it is that Pole Day benefited from unmet demand for Race Day, combined with a lack of local entertainment alternatives.

There is some wisdom in that, but since it doesn't insult anyone or validate anyone's prejudices it's not a real popular thing to say.

There also wasn't as big of a competitor as there is in NASCAR now.

It's down for a few reasons, some cultural, some mismanagement, some circumstantial. Only one way back, and that's one new fan at a time.

[DaveL]

It's down for a few reasons, some cultural, some mismanagement, some circumstantial. Only one way back, and that's one new fan at a time.

I have a better idea, give potential fans something interesting and compelling to watch and we can add fans a few thousand at a time instead of onesies and twosies.

Naaaahhhhhh.

[Muskie4041]

I have a better idea, give potential fans something interesting and compelling to watch and we can add fans a few thousand at a time instead of onesies and twosies.

Naaaahhhhhh.

Last year was very compelling. People just don't care.