Does the IRL have a future at Gateway and Nashville?

[LorenzoBandini]

Considering the "hardball" ISC is playing with CART in Miami AND considering the relationship CART now has with Dover Downs Inc, will the IRL find itself with a short term relationship in Gateway and Nashville?

Considering the IRL is a "friend" of ISC and CART is becoming an "enemy" of ISC, could CART honcho Chris Pook convince his old buddies at DD to drop the IRL?

How does this effect the IRL scheduling in the future? Is there a chance the IRL could run at New Hampshire or Las Vegas again?

[JoeBob]

Part of CART's agreement with Dover Downs to get Pook on board was that CART would discuss holding races as Nashville and Gateway.

Does that mean that the IRL would be thrown out? Who knows.

Does that mean that CART is likely to return to Gateway, and start running at Nashville? Probably.

Is ISC an Anti-Trust Suit waiting to happen? Definately.

[indyracer56]

I wouldn't worry too much about future IRL schedules.

Take a look at how many tracks ISC and Speedway Motorsports have...and then look at how many Dover Downs has.

And what would happen to Dover Downs Entertainment if NASCAR pulled the races from Dover?

Ouch!

[Griz]

Originally posted by indyracer56:
<STRONG>And what would happen to Dover Downs Entertainment if NASCAR pulled the races from Dover?

Ouch!</STRONG>

Exactly. DD can't afford to get into a shoving match with the France family empire. Regardless, DD has a certain moneymaker in Nashiville with the IRL race and something at least with potential in St. Louis, so I'd say DD would be irritating shareholders if they dropped the IRL from those two venues.

[sifaka]

Of course DD could really play hardball with the ISC and refuse to let the IRL out of its contract for the Gateway . Punish them by making them race there for the next 5 years.

That Dd owns Gateway was one of the only truly negative things about Pook's association with DD. I doubt that you'll see CART trying for a Gateway race. Better to let the IRL show up for small crowds and boring racing.

Now Nasheville is another story. Look for DD t maintain the IRL race, but add a CART race.

[ March 06, 2002: Message edited by: sifaka ]

[indyracer56]

If DD wants CART at Nashville, just schedule CART and the IRL together.

That way you will have more then 20 cars for the race!

[OutKast]

Maybe Pook will push for a CART/IRL double header like he did with ALMS in Miami. I doubt it would happen, but just a thought.

[JoeBob]

Originally posted by OutKast:
<STRONG>Maybe Pook will push for a CART/IRL double header like he did with ALMS in Miami. I doubt it would happen, but just a thought.</STRONG>

Do you really think the IRL or CART would be willing to race on Saturday and have the other be the main event?

[step33T]

CART isn't in any position to generate MORE revenue for Nashville and Gateway by replacing the IRL.

The IRL has a smaller rate structure, and provides much more support to the tracks in terms of marketing and promotion.

There is just far more upside for the IRL than CART.

Besides all of the above, CART is going AWAY from domestic ovals. I wouldn't expect them add a concrete cereal bowl at any time.

[Professor Joe]

Originally posted by LorenzoBandini:
<STRONG>Does the IRL have a future at Gateway and Nashville?</STRONG>

As long as the IRL can make money for DDE, they will have a future at Gateway and Nashville. Under the IRL's formula of sharing TV revenues with the promoter, it is much easier for promoters to make a profit (sometimes in spite of small crowds) than it was previously. For instance, I had heard that Phoenix made more money with the IRL than they had under their last years with cart. It will be all about the money - not the politics.

<STRONG>How does this effect the IRL scheduling in the future? Is there a chance the IRL could run at New Hampshire or Las Vegas again?</STRONG>

I think there is a chance the IRL could again run at Las Vegas. It is a great track for these cars. It is a 1.5 mi trioval, but it has the lowest banking of any of this group of tracks.

I don't know why the IRL would try to go to New Hampshire again in the forseeable future.

[cmjc80]

Originally posted by JoeBob:
<STRONG>
Is ISC an Anti-Trust Suit waiting to happen? Definately.</STRONG>

More like definatly not. ISC does not provide a public service like Telephones, Computer Operating systems, Oil, Aluminium, Steele, Railroads or every other monopoly that was or was attempted to be broken up. Add that to the fact that there are other racing series including stock car series, other track operators, and ISC allows other racing series at their tracks without pricing them out of business means there wouldn't be a case for a monopoly.

The reason Edison's motion picture trust was broken up was because it was forcing independent movie theatres and production companies out of business. ISC/NASCAR's gorwth has done the exact opposite. Motorsports has taken off because of NASCAR. In fact, the IRL wouldn't even exist without Brickyard 400 money and ISC tracks.

[ March 06, 2002: Message edited by: cmjc80 ]

[ March 06, 2002: Message edited by: cmjc80 ]

[mesquite-crk]

Originally posted by step33:
<STRONG>CART isn't in any position to generate MORE revenue for Nashville and Gateway by replacing the IRL.

The IRL has a smaller rate structure, and provides much more support to the tracks in terms of marketing and promotion.

There is just far more upside for the IRL than CART.
</STRONG>

What a bunch of CROCK.
"more support to the tracks in terms of marketing and promotion" ... 50,000 (or less) in attendance at both tracks combined. It doesn't take that much promotion or support to get that many fans for both events.

Either way, I wouldn't mind CART NOT getting Gateway, but Nashville looks promising. Isn't KOOL based out of Tennessee?? and the crowds look like they can grow for a CART event.

[step33T]

Originally posted by mesquite-crk:
<STRONG>
What a bunch of CROCK.
"more support to the tracks in terms of marketing and promotion" ... 50,000 (or less) in attendance at both tracks combined. It doesn't take that much promotion or support to get that many fans for both events.

Either way, I wouldn't mind CART NOT getting Gateway, but Nashville looks promising. Isn't KOOL based out of Tennessee?? and the crowds look like they can grow for a CART event.</STRONG>

A CROCK. You apparently haven't talked to promoters that have worked with both series. CART takes the check, and that is it. Heck, that is the crux of the whole reason they brought in Pook. The promoters wanted CART to bring more to the table than a bunch of cars.

The IRL is FAR ahead of CART in the promotion area.

CART's successes are in places where the promoter works hard to promote the event. Like Long Beach. And that was Pook making the event, not support from CART.

[AdamM]

Cart has already flamed out once in St. Louis, so the likelihood of them now being successful is slim. The problem comes down to sanction fees and unless Pook is willing to send MPH down the toilet, he can’t afford to cut many “low cost” sanction deals, since CART’s only real source of income is sanction fees. Pook’s trap is that he still needs show revenue and profit growth to keep Wall Street and folks like Grossfield and Vannini happy (Remember Vaninni’s talk about $5 mil sanction fees and dropping venues that don’t want to ante up.)

Can St. Louis or Nashville with a crowd of 30,000 support a 2 mil sanction fee? Or even a 1mil sanction fee? And if Pook gives a lower fee, what other races fees get raised to make up the difference?

[mesquite-crk]

Originally posted by step33:
<STRONG>

A CROCK. You apparently haven't talked to promoters that have worked with both series. CART takes the check, and that is it. Heck, that is the crux of the whole reason they brought in Pook. The promoters wanted CART to bring more to the table than a bunch of cars.
</STRONG>

I agree with most of this, but how much promotion are you really doing to get 30,000 in at Nashville and 20,000 in at St.Louis ?? If you're doing a lot, then you've been doing a lot of nothing.

[ March 06, 2002: Message edited by: mesquite-crk ]