Oreo article on Kimball, with a comment on ride buyers

[ptt]

http://espn.go.com/racing/indycar/story/_/id/9540450/indycar-charlie-kimball-serves-notice-mid-ohio

"But because he delivered a sponsor to a major team, Kimball was pigeonholed as a ride buyer, when in truth 70 percent of the rides in all forms of major auto racing are locked up the same way. The difference -- in Indy car racing, at least -- is that Kimball is the rare American driver who put in the kind of effort in landing a sponsor normally associated with Europeans or South Americans."

Charlie did put in the effort, but he also had the advantage of being a ready-made story to help sell the sponsor's product.

[midtown]

He had excessive tartar build-up?

[Count Tracula]

Charlie Kimball is a smart, solid racer, with skill. He'll win again. And he has Borg potential.

[Hitokiri]

Charlie did put in the effort, but he also had the advantage of being a ready-made story to help sell the sponsor's product.

I think that's a little harsh. True, Charlie had diabetes before the Novo sponsorship but that doesn't erase the fact that he did fairly well in Euro F3 (mostly the second half of the season) against some really stiff competition. Even in Indy Lights nobody had more podium did he did outside the top two drivers in the series. The wins and podiums that he earned in the various junior series are a credit to his skill and toughness and I do believe that have diabetes really stopped him efforts in Europe and probably took some getting use to. If Charlie hadn't had so many podiums in Indy Lights and haven't had a good run in Europe then I would be more critical of him but since I've followed him since his days in Euro F3 I know his quality and what's been said of his driving since then and most of it is positive.

[ICS001]

Yes, he did reasonably well against a high level of competition (several future F1 drivers) in the UK and Europe, winning quite a few races there. So did Richard Antinucci, a shame he never got a good shot at Indycar (Team 3G was a shoestring effort).

[Bullwinkle]

http://espn.go.com/racing/indycar/st...otice-mid-ohio

"But because he delivered a sponsor to a major team, Kimball was pigeonholed as a ride buyer, when in truth 70 percent of the rides in all forms of major auto racing are locked up the same way. The difference -- in Indy car racing, at least -- is that Kimball is the rare American driver who put in the kind of effort in landing a sponsor normally associated with Europeans or South Americans."

Charlie did put in the effort, but he also had the advantage of being a ready-made story to help sell the sponsor's product.

I get really, really tired of the ride-buyer tag that exists in this forum and in a lot of places in American Racing Circles.

This is the way things are: If you want to get a job driving a race car, AT ANY LEVEL ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD, you will be required to do one of several things:

1) You will be required to help raise money to fund your position. Whether this comes from your parents or your family business (as in the case of someone like Paul Menard or James Jakes), or this comes from selling companies on the concept of sponsoring you (as many in all the paddocks in the world have done with personal sponsors), SOMEONE HAS TO BRING MONEY FROM SOMEWHERE. Why not the Driver?

2) If you manage to get a paying ride, you will be expected to keep your team's funding sources happy. This commonly includes lots of appearances. And if you are not good enough at it and the team loses the sponsorship, guess what? You might be out of a job.

THAT IS THE BUSINESS. Rarely can one get anywhere on talent alone. Because there is not enough money in winning to pay the bills. If you were running an indycar team, How much money could you possibly make in winnings? Certainly Not the $4 million or so it would take to be competitive. Possibly not even the $2-3 million minimum just to run the car in the races.

I think most people here would categorize anyone in class (1) above to be a Ride Buyer. And I think there is nothing wrong with that. But most of the drivers in the Indycar paddock fall into that category. This is an off-the-top of my head list of drivers that "Bring money" to their teams. Without them, there would not be much of a series.

My definition of "Bring Money" in the list below is: "If the Patrons listed below pulled their support, the driver would either lose his or her ride or be left seriously scrambling"

So yes, under my classification even Ed Carpenter falls into that category. Without Fuzzy Zoeller and Tony George, ECR would be in serious trouble.

Driver/Patron
Simon Pagenaud/HPD
Charlie Kimball/Novo Nordisk
Tristan Vautier/HPD and others
Takuma Sato/HMC (Honda Japan), Matsushita (Panasonic)
EJ Viso/Citgo and others
Patrick Carpentier/B&W and others
James Jakes/Acorn Stairlifts (Family Company)
Marco Andretti/AA
Graham Rahal/RLL and TBC corporation (Midas parent) and others
Ed Carpenter/Fuzzy Zoeller, Tony George
Josef Newgarden/Wink Hartman and others
Pippa Mann/Cyclops Gear
Simona DeSilvestro/Energy

[Maelochs]

What I got out of that excerpt was that he busted his butt as hard out of the car as on the track, and that according to eh author, some American Rahals, I mean drivers, don't work that hard to find sponsorship., while more young foreign drivers realize that's how it is and do the work---and get the sponsorship.

It's not like every young driver who brings a check has some disease to market. It is that some of them find sponsoers and some don't. Some is luck, some is connections, and maybe some is dedication?

That's what I got out of it.

[jp]

And he has Borg potential.

...which can be said about most of the field this year.

[Doctorindy]

1) You will be required to help raise money to fund your position.

In this day and age, a great driver also has to be a great fundraiser.

Just like the best and most-popular politicians, a big part of the job is to be a great fundraiser.

[zapp2525]

When I win the powerball tonight add me to the list of ride buyers.

[ICS001]

Driver/Patron
Simon Pagenaud/HPD
Charlie Kimball/Novo Nordisk
Tristan Vautier/HPD and others
Takuma Sato/HMC (Honda Japan), Matsushita (Panasonic)
EJ Viso/Citgo and others
Patrick Carpentier/B&W and others
James Jakes/Acorn Stairlifts (Family Company)
Marco Andretti/AA
Graham Rahal/RLL and TBC corporation (Midas parent) and others
Ed Carpenter/Fuzzy Zoeller, Tony George
Josef Newgarden/Wink Hartman and others
Pippa Mann/Cyclops Gear
Simona DeSilvestro/Entergy

Don't agree on Pagenaud - you may as well call every factory sports car driver a ride buyer. I've covered Vautier elsewhere. He's had plenty of success without big money behind him.

Kimball, Jakes, de Silvestro, Viso, Mann - sure. Carpentier? Do you mean Tagliani? If so, maybe. They don't seem to mind Filippi in the car though...

Rahal was already in major league racing prior to picking up the sponsors, IIRC. Newgarden - makes no sense whatsoever. You going to call Luhr a ride-buyer when he turns up at Sonoma for SFHR?

Ed Carpenter runs his own team, so by definition he is also overseeing sponsorship. Of course, he's won two races on merit. Dregging up the Tony George stuff at this point is a tad pathetic.

Takuma Sato is tied to Honda and Panasonic, on the other hand Foyt has enough sponsorship to pay a driver if he wishes (for example, Meira).

[ChampcarChuck]

Without Novo Nordisk, Charlie would probably not be in Indycar. So yeah, you can call it ride buying if you want to label it but who cares? It gives us a talented driver who is now a proven winner and a sponsor that is taking full advantage of the activation opportunities.

[dcpduke]

Good for Kimball....If I had a pacemacker I would go to the company that builds them and tell them lets go win the Indy 500 together. I guess I'm a ride buyer then?

[ptt]

I think that's a little harsh. True, Charlie had diabetes before the Novo sponsorship but that doesn't erase the fact that he did fairly well in Euro F3 (mostly the second half of the season) against some really stiff competition. Even in Indy Lights nobody had more podium did he did outside the top two drivers in the series.

That wasn't meant to be harsh. Full disclosure, I'm Charlie's uncle and still want to be allowed to attend the race weekends. Charlie worked hard when he was in Europe and drove well and he worked hard to find sponsorship upon his return to the US. But (IMO) it was his tie to his sponsor's product that got him the deal. I guess I thought Oreo wasn't being fair by writing "Kimball is the rare American driver who put in the kind of effort". I'm guessing there are plenty of Americans who are working hard to find sponsors and think Charlie might have had a leg up with his tie to NovoNordisk. None of that is meant to diminish his efforts to obtain that sponsorship or the time he spends working to promote NovoNordisk, whether it is meeting with employees and doctors or attending diabetes conferences. He spends a lot of time making appearances - a lot. Nor was it meant to diminish his driving ability - I think he's awesome (having ridden with him ) and is now showing the results I knew would come.

[Count Tracula]

...which can be said about most of the field this year.

Well, no, actually.