Now everybody wants two scoops

[Z28]

It's unknown at this point what makes a doubleheader a success. If the promoter is paying one sanctioning fee to INDYCAR for two races he's happy because he gets two races on two days and isn't paying NASCAR a fee for a Truck race or a Saturday sports car race. Would he feel the same if he had to pay double the fee like another track would if it had two dates?

Those three Saturday races fill the schedule but cut the revenue INDYCAR could get if they were going to three different tracks at other times of the year. Isn't the point of looking at foreign venues with bad broadcast times getting a big check? So why look for money one place and give it up someplace else?

Just out of curiosity...somthing that just dawned on me and I am only quoting your post because you mention Road America. In past threads, someone mentions COTA and people go crazy because adding another race to the same region would be a bad idea. However, isn't Elkhart Lake only a little more than a stone's throw away from Milwaukee? That would be adding another race to the same region. Yet it seems to be a very favorable response all around.

Sounds like it's more of the "living in the past," thinking and wanting things to be what they used to be and not so much too many races in one area of the country.

For the record, I support Road America and COTA and would love to see them race in both places. However my fear is that ovals are soon going to be a thing of the past and soon we'll have a 15/3 split or something like that if they keep adding street/road courses. Honestly think Indycar should be looking to add an oval or two over throwing a street circuit another double header.

Just thinking out loud.

If ovals are to become a thing of the past the old question to be answered is, why are Indycars called Indycars? Because of the 500 and why would a series of road and street courses have it's biggest and only event anybody but diehards notice be on an oval? And I'll be going to one Indycar race and lots more NASCAR.


You may not be in the USA or familiar with geography or Google Maps but Elkhart Lake is about 60 miles or one hour north of Wisconsin State Fair Park. It's been a while since I went but I remember that you take I-43 north to rt 57 at 23 cut over to rt 67 and you're there. The reality is there is a crossover in the crowds, I'm guessing 33%, but they each have their own fan base to makeup the balance. To me, both tracks have some amount of fans of the track that attend most races because they like going to the track regardless of the series. Both are in Wisconsin and even though residents of that state look down upon people from Illinois, some portion of the 8 million people in the Chicago area are able to travel to both tracks. Should a race at Chicagoland Speedway ever be added I think all three could survive because CS has the advantage of selling suites and getting major sponsorship from the big city. What it requires to boost attendance is a more popular series which helps all three tracks.

I love the double headers. Can't wait for an Indy 500 double header - two Indy 500s in two days!!!

When that happens it would mean carrying a seat cushion along with everything else. Maybe they could have a two day deal on the seat back rentals. But I would be there as opposed to the RC race any other time.

[PHJIndy]

How about having some races in August and September instead of having two in one weekend?:mad:
This year the schedule is CRAZY!!!!!

[Mr. Bean]

I think they really need to limit the amount of these double header weekends. They are killer on the teams and drivers. I think having only 3 a season makes them a bit more special or prestigious. I see it very easy to overkill and lose peoples interest.

Like I have jokingly said before, Hey, lets have THREE races a in one weekend!(sarcasm)

At what point do some races become unimportant to even some diehard fans?

[Unzerdog]

Just out of curiosity...somthing that just dawned on me and I am only quoting your post because you mention Road America. In past threads, someone mentions COTA and people go crazy because adding another race to the same region would be a bad idea. However, isn't Elkhart Lake only a little more than a stone's throw away from Milwaukee? That would be adding another race to the same region. Yet it seems to be a very favorable response all around.

Sounds like it's more of the "living in the past," thinking and wanting things to be what they used to be and not so much too many races in one area of the country.

For the record, I support Road America and COTA and would love to see them race in both places. However my fear is that ovals are soon going to be a thing of the past and soon we'll have a 15/3 split or something like that if they keep adding street/road courses. Honestly think Indycar should be looking to add an oval or two over throwing a street circuit another double header.

Just thinking out loud.

I want to go to both Milwaukee and RA. and The corkscrew. Those are all Icons and earned their places as meccas to the motoring world. Like Mid -O, people seem to turn up for the events that bear deeper meaning, for whatever reason. If its an old fan coming out of the woodwork to live it one more time, or a guy like me that never got to see the corkscrew or Canada corner, or the oldest track in the country, Milwaukee. I'm not flying across country to see a cookie cutter. I will barely pick up the remote for a cookie cutter. But I have flown cross country twice to be at Phoenix. see What I'm thinking. Not arguing, just thinking. i saw the Goodyear bridge twice before they pulled it down.

[Sea Fury]

I see where you're going but I think there's a point missing. Add COTA to the calender would mean THREE races at THREE different venues in one state. There weren't too many complaints when TMS and Houston had their different venues (though there were three races total) but adding a third Texas races would be too much.

Last I checked, Long Beach, Sonoma and Fontana are all in the same state. Anyone complaining?

[Jsieczka]

Last I checked, Long Beach, Sonoma and Fontana are all in the same state. Anyone complaining?

Heck Long Beach and Fontana are in the same metro and they seem to get along.

[dcpduke]

I love the double headers. Can't wait for an Indy 500 double header - two Indy 500s in two days!!!

This made me laugh......Michael lay off the pipe.

[Sea Fury]

Heck Long Beach and Fontana are in the same metro and they seem to get along.

A peek at the 1965 schedule shows points races at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway, the IRP road course, AND the Indiana State Fairgrounds....Admittedly I'm not up on my Hoosier geography, but something tells me they are NOT thousands of miles apart.

1967 had the above trio plus the cluster of Sacramento, Hanford, and Riverside in Cali...

Seem to remember a few years in the CART era where Long Beach, Fontana and Laguna Seca were all on the schedule....

How many Indy car venues, current and former, lie within a 300-mile circle of another?

[Hitokiri]

Last I checked, Long Beach, Sonoma and Fontana are all in the same state. Anyone complaining?

If Fontana was anything else (even including Laguna Seca). Heck - if Fontana was a road course and and not an oval I think they would.

[cgy1]

I'll take St. Pete. Great way to start the season.

Simona agrees.

[Racing Steward]

The double headers are amazing from a fan perspective but IMO if they are going to do 1 or 2 of them on twisties, then they need to do 1-2 on ovals. It should be somewhat fair IMO. Having 2,3-4 of them on twisties with none on ovals and making the series schedule even more overweight with one discipline is unfair and is in a way detrimental to the diversity of the series IMO. Because now a great road racer can get by being average on ovals because the schedule has so many more R&S events than oval events and it takes away from having to be good at both IMO.

Speaking of that another line of thinking I have always disagreed with is the 7-7-7. My question is how is a street circuit any different from a road course than a Milwaukee short oval is from a Fontana big oval? How come streets & roads are separate categories but big ovals and small ovals are the same? Ive always thought the schedule should be 50-50 (Half Road-Streets and Half Big & Small Ovals). I have always considered Big & Small ovals separate categories in the exact same way Road & Streets are separate categories. I never agreed with nor liked the 7-7-7 concept. Because in reality its a 14-7 concept. Road & Streets are the same TYPE of track but categorically have differences and the same goes with Big & Small ovals.

[Nigel Red5]

A peek at the 1965 schedule shows points races at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway, the IRP road course, AND the Indiana State Fairgrounds....Admittedly I'm not up on my Hoosier geography, but something tells me they are NOT thousands of miles apart.

1967 had the above trio plus the cluster of Sacramento, Hanford, and Riverside in Cali...

Seem to remember a few years in the CART era where Long Beach, Fontana and Laguna Seca were all on the schedule....

How many Indy car venues, current and former, lie within a 300-mile circle of another?

IndyCar raced at Pocono, the meadowlands and Nazareth in 1989. That's three races in less than 100 mile radius and two within 40 miles of each other. How far are IMS, kentucky, mid ohio, Cleveland and Chicago apart.

[SactoIndyFan]

The double headers are amazing from a fan perspective but IMO if they are going to do 1 or 2 of them on twisties, then they need to do 1-2 on ovals. It should be somewhat fair IMO. Having 2,3-4 of them on twisties with none on ovals and making the series schedule even more overweight with one discipline is unfair and is in a way detrimental to the diversity of the series IMO. Because now a great road racer can get by being average on ovals because the schedule has so many more R&S events than oval events and it takes away from having to be good at both IMO.

Speaking of that another line of thinking I have always disagreed with is the 7-7-7. My question is how is a street circuit any different from a road course than a Milwaukee short oval is from a Fontana big oval? How come streets & roads are separate categories but big ovals and small ovals are the same? Ive always thought the schedule should be 50-50 (Half Road-Streets and Half Big & Small Ovals). I have always considered Big & Small ovals separate categories in the exact same way Road & Streets are separate categories. I never agreed with nor liked the 7-7-7 concept. Because in reality its a 14-7 concept. Road & Streets are the same TYPE of track but categorically have differences and the same goes with Big & Small ovals.

I've been saying this for years.

[Ceiling Cat]

The double headers are amazing from a fan perspective but IMO if they are going to do 1 or 2 of them on twisties, then they need to do 1-2 on ovals. It should be somewhat fair IMO. Having 2,3-4 of them on twisties with none on ovals and making the series schedule even more overweight with one discipline is unfair and is in a way detrimental to the diversity of the series IMO. Because now a great road racer can get by being average on ovals because the schedule has so many more R&S events than oval events and it takes away from having to be good at both IMO.

Speaking of that another line of thinking I have always disagreed with is the 7-7-7. My question is how is a street circuit any different from a road course than a Milwaukee short oval is from a Fontana big oval? How come streets & roads are separate categories but big ovals and small ovals are the same? Ive always thought the schedule should be 50-50 (Half Road-Streets and Half Big & Small Ovals). I have always considered Big & Small ovals separate categories in the exact same way Road & Streets are separate categories. I never agreed with nor liked the 7-7-7 concept. Because in reality its a 14-7 concept. Road & Streets are the same TYPE of track but categorically have differences and the same goes with Big & Small ovals.

I agree. It needs to be 7-7-7-7. Although this doesn't go with that ratio, I am fine with picking up additional street and road courses as long as ovals aren't dropped, replaced, or sought after due to the new road/street. I just like to see more racing and more races. If it's an oval, great. If it's a street course, I'll take it.

[Muskie4041]

This is the future of the sport.