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NHRA sues Coca-Cola

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  • #76
    NHRA Pro Stock as we've known it is a dead horse. Racers can't make a living from it, and fans don't care about it. It's a slow, boring version of Pro Mod. What's left is nostalgia for winning the same class that legends won a long time ago. If you invented modern Pro Stock today, it wouldn't get into the Sunday show.
    Last edited by atrackforumfan; 10-06-2020, 03:53 AM.
    Racing ain't much, but workin's nothing. Richard Tharp

    Lying was a no-brainer for me. Robin Miller

    "I thought they booed [Danica] because she was being a complete jerk, but then they applauded for A.J. Foyt. Now I'm just confused."

    The real world sucks. Ed McCullough

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    • #77
      Originally posted by atrackforumfan View Post
      NHRA Pro Stock as we've known it is a dead horse. Racers can't make a living from it, and fans don't care about it. It's a slow, boring version of Pro Mod. What's left is nostalgia for winning the same class that legends won a long time ago. If you invented modern Pro Stock today, it wouldn't get into the Sunday show.
      Factory Stock Showdown would be a good replacement for the current Pro Stock, as it is as close to the original concept of Pro Stock as you can get. From what I can tell it is popular, which is hard to ascertain by looking at the NHRA website. Other than a sponsor announcement and some results, I'm finding nothing much about the class.
      “America is all about speed. Hot, nasty, badass speed.” - Eleanor Roosevelt

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      • #78
        I quite enjoyed the Pro Stock races at the US Nationals.

        This is, however, coming from a guy who stayed until 9:20 to watch the Comp Eliminator final.
        Some fans claim one series or another runs "real race cars." What's everybody else running, fake race cars? :confused:

        INDYCAR - NOW IZODIER THAN EVER!

        my blog ... I'm not a big fat woodchuck, I'm THE big fat woodchuck.

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        • #79
          Originally posted by thehairpin View Post
          I quite enjoyed the Pro Stock races at the US Nationals.

          This is, however, coming from a guy who stayed until 9:20 to watch the Comp Eliminator final.
          Comp is best class.

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          • #80
            Originally posted by FormulaFox View Post

            Comp is best class.
            I like pretty much everything but the .90 classes (Super Comp, Super Gas, Super Street)
            “America is all about speed. Hot, nasty, badass speed.” - Eleanor Roosevelt

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            • #81
              What does a team that shows up to run Pro Stock make at the end of a national event vs. Pro Mod, Factory Street Showdown, Top Dragster, or TAFC? I don't necessarily want to throw Pro Stock out for the heck of it, but if there's a lot of money being invested by NHRA that could be redirected elsewhere and obtain greater factory/sponsor support, I'm sure the people in that series could move onto other things and do just fine. A bunch of pro drivers already run multiple classes like Erica Enders and Leah Pruett.

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              • #82
                Originally posted by VirtualBalboa View Post
                What does a team that shows up to run Pro Stock make at the end of a national event vs. Pro Mod, Factory Street Showdown, Top Dragster, or TAFC? I don't necessarily want to throw Pro Stock out for the heck of it, but if there's a lot of money being invested by NHRA that could be redirected elsewhere and obtain greater factory/sponsor support, I'm sure the people in that series could move onto other things and do just fine. A bunch of pro drivers already run multiple classes like Erica Enders and Leah Pruett.
                Pro Stock has been living on borrowed time for at least 10 years, and the main reason it seems to stick around is because its been around since 1970, and essentially in its current form since 1982, when the 500 cubic inch formula was introduced. Ever since NHRA started "Official Vehicle" marketing agreements - IIRC with Oldsmobile originally - the other OEMs slowly lost interest and removed their support. Meanwhile Factory Stock has Chevrolet, Ford, and Dodge support right now, and Enders, Pruett, and several other pros from other classes, along with occasional entry by Don Garlits and some past Pro Stock drivers like Mark Pawuk, give the class some instant star power.

                THOUGH, as I'm looking further into this, things are not all great in Factory Stock Challenge right now.

                http://competitionplus.com/drag-raci...tal-crossroads

                And not to get too far off topic, but the NHRA tie in with Harley-Davidson is another one of those shortsighted marketing deals that pushed out other OEMs.
                “America is all about speed. Hot, nasty, badass speed.” - Eleanor Roosevelt

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                • #83
                  Originally posted by Sweaty Teddy View Post

                  I like pretty much everything but the .90 classes (Super Comp, Super Gas, Super Street)
                  What;s the issue with those classes?
                  Some fans claim one series or another runs "real race cars." What's everybody else running, fake race cars? :confused:

                  INDYCAR - NOW IZODIER THAN EVER!

                  my blog ... I'm not a big fat woodchuck, I'm THE big fat woodchuck.

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                  • #84
                    Originally posted by thehairpin View Post

                    What;s the issue with those classes?
                    From a spectator perspective, heads up, breakout classes are boring. The cars tend to be quicker than the index they run in - sometimes significantly quicker - so they either slow down before the finish line, or they use electronics to launch, roll for some period of time, then run out the back.
                    “America is all about speed. Hot, nasty, badass speed.” - Eleanor Roosevelt

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                    • #85
                      Originally posted by Sweaty Teddy View Post

                      From a spectator perspective, heads up, breakout classes are boring. The cars tend to be quicker than the index they run in - sometimes significantly quicker - so they either slow down before the finish line, or they use electronics to launch, roll for some period of time, then run out the back.
                      Makes sense. Oddly enough, that;s why i like them. I actually kind of enjoy the strategy of needing to brake in a drag race.
                      Some fans claim one series or another runs "real race cars." What's everybody else running, fake race cars? :confused:

                      INDYCAR - NOW IZODIER THAN EVER!

                      my blog ... I'm not a big fat woodchuck, I'm THE big fat woodchuck.

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                      • #86
                        Originally posted by thehairpin View Post

                        Makes sense. Oddly enough, that;s why i like them. I actually kind of enjoy the strategy of needing to brake in a drag race.
                        Super Stock and Stock can also require braking at the finish line to keep from going to quick, but for different reason.

                        Different strokes and all that.
                        “America is all about speed. Hot, nasty, badass speed.” - Eleanor Roosevelt

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                        • #87
                          Originally posted by FormulaFox View Post
                          There is a lot to develop in aero. Dragsters have unique issues that cause trouble other forms of racing don't when it comes to aero. Again, I refer to Gary Ormsby's streamliner in the 80s - that car could have overcome the extreme weight of the body panels, but getting the aero in tight enoguh to do the job caused too many problems with the engine vibrations. Early on, the bodywork even kept catching on engine components and keeping the car from even moving. The bodywork thus has to be pulled away from the engine, and that's where the issues really begin - you can overcome more bodywork with the right shaping, but that's also where the issue becomes unique because no other form of racecar has to have so much space between bodywork and engine.

                          But it's also not really necessary to go that far. Dragsters are already so thin and streamlined that the wheels are the only area that causes any issues that would need to be addressed - the rears in particular. And as I've noted, some aerodynamically-sculpted pods in front and behind would do everything you'd need in that area. We certainly don't need full streamliners, which is where the aero development would go VERY crazy.

                          As for examples of spec that saved money, the answer is the vast majority. In most cases, when a "spec" series doesn't save money, it wasn't truly a spec series. In the remaining cases the specs they came up with just weren't actually set up to reduce costs.

                          Keep in mind that the vast majority of the series a lot of people consider "spec," like IndyCar and NASCAR, are NOT actually spec.

                          EDIT: I'm a little sad now, as this discussion has reminded me of an old friend who was killed by a drunk driver a few years back... When he died, he was working on a concept for a low-cost racecar that could run dirt, asphalt, road courses, and be a competitive Comp dragster with minimal effort. He apparently had the ear of someone with some pull in our NHRA division, but he died before he could develop the concept. I wish he'd have left some notes behind - it would be interesting to see what he came up with and if any of it could be applied to some new concept for top fuel.
                          Sorry to hear about your friend. I understand your premise around limited development, but it typically doesn't play out that way. Too restrictive in terms of areas of development actual work to the advantages of the larger, established more resourced teams. They typically never loose their advantage because their money and talent are pitched into those limited areas and they get down the mole hole fast, further and always just ahead. That little advantage makes a huge on-track difference. I do agree over time a smaller team will eventually win on some occasion, but not consistently. You only have the look to IndyCar in the middle 2000's. Also, why would a new team want to enter, they will lack the knowledge to compete in any time horizon a sponsor would require in this day and age. Someone had mention in a previous post about lowering the barrier to entry and I completely agree with that notion. it flies in the face of how we currently think about "cost cutting" so the little guy can compete and I suggest the little guy has a much more even playing field when they have the latitude (not unlimited) to develop a better mouse trap. Racing is expensive at every level.

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                          • #88
                            I hope the Camping World title sponsorship helps stabilize things. Drag racing is my first love because, among other things, it is the mot accessible of motorsports from a participation level. NHRA needs to remember that and get back to that with whatever changes they make to their programs. If they make any changes that is.
                            “America is all about speed. Hot, nasty, badass speed.” - Eleanor Roosevelt

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                            • #89
                              And back to the original topic of this thread, I missed the "immediate" part of the Coke withdrawal and that the Camping World NHRA title sponsorship was also with immediate effect. Leaving early at the end of the year would have been bad enough, but cutting and running before any season - but this season in particular - was over was a bad, bad look.
                              “America is all about speed. Hot, nasty, badass speed.” - Eleanor Roosevelt

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                              • #90
                                Originally posted by Sweaty Teddy View Post
                                And back to the original topic of this thread, I missed the "immediate" part of the Coke withdrawal and that the Camping World NHRA title sponsorship was also with immediate effect. Leaving early at the end of the year would have been bad enough, but cutting and running before any season - but this season in particular - was over was a bad, bad look.
                                This also makes me think that NHRA might have a case. It all depends on the wording of the contract, but I've never before heard of a contract for sponsorship with an out clause that applies mid-season without a hefty payout. Anything's possible, of course, but this is still a VERY weird notion.

                                I suspect the lawsuit will be settled out of court. Coke might even have been expecting this and is hoping a settlement will come to terms for something less than what NHRA wanted.

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