Lotus 49 - Greatest Race Car ever?

[Gabbiano]

If not, then what?

(good time of year for this debate)

[tcsparky]

I don't know if I agree with this. I seem to recall a remark by a Lotus person stating that the 49 was just a series of brackets holding the Ford/Cosworth engine, Hewland transmission and Goodyear tires together. I think most people would agree that the DFV part of the 49 was the most significant F1 engine. Although it was the 49 on which sponsership was introduced, starting the modern F1 era. I will agree that the 49's record of wins, over a period of time is amazing. First win, first time out with the great Jimmy Clark in 1967. And then the last win, Rindt's lucky win at Monaco in 1970. One of the greatest? Considering it's DFV engine in the mix, you bet! I don't think I can say what the greatest race car ever was. I've got favorites, of course. The Lotus 79, Blower Bentleys of the 20s, Harry Miller's cars, CanAm Turbo Panzers (Porsche), Novi, STP Turbine Indy racer, the Chapparals... so many. Greatest is very broad. P.S. The recent death of Keith Duckworth was, to me, a loss of the last link to that Golden Age of Grand Prix racing when Team Lotus was running it's 49s.

[CARTer]

In terms of dominating the opposition, I vote for the Porsche 917/30.

In terms of longevity, I vote for the Porsche 956/962.

In terms of looks, I vote for the F1 Ferrari 640.

[fatlantic]

Did you know that the distance between the lower front engine mount bolts(9.5 inches I think) on the Lotus 49 became the standard in racing cars until this day. So in theory, you can easily mount a 1967 cosworth DFV in a current Swift 014 Atlantic chassis. My vote for best racecar ever, 1966 Chaparral 2E(which Chaparral is making again!). But the racecar I want the most is a 1971 McLaren 8F with alloy 510 cube chevy. I WILL have one before I die!!

[tcsparky]

Did you know that the distance between the lower front engine mount bolts(9.5 inches I think) on the Lotus 49 became the standard in racing cars until this day. So in theory, you can easily mount a 1967 cosworth DFV in a current Swift 014 Atlantic chassis. My vote for best racecar ever, 1966 Chaparral 2E(which Chaparral is making again!). But the racecar I want the most is a 1971 McLaren 8F with alloy 510 cube chevy. I WILL have one before I die!!

What? Jill Hall is making another 2E? Wow! Is he building any other "2s"? Is he doing this to sell it to the public?

[fatlantic]

I might have thrown out the magazine, but here was a feature article in last months Vintage Motorsports. Hall and one of his original mechanics(not Troy Rodgers) are building a series(5-10) copies of the aluminum tub(not fiberglass) 2E from original blueprints and body moulds. Anyone with the money can buy one but a price wasn't mentioned probably, at least a mil though. Hall had the first copy 2E as a roller at Monteray this year. Must go to Ft Wayne now I will try to find the article when I get back. Also, Lola is now building new 1969 Lola T70/3 coupes,like Penskes 1969 Daytona winner,only 250k!

[tcsparky]

I might have thrown out the magazine, but here was a feature article in last months Vintage Motorsports. Hall and one of his original mechanics(not Troy Rodgers) are building a series(5-10) copies of the aluminum tub(not fiberglass) 2E from original blueprints and body moulds. Anyone with the money can buy one but a price wasn't mentioned probably, at least a mil though. Hall had the first copy 2E as a roller at Monteray this year. Must go to Ft Wayne now I will try to find the article when I get back. Also, Lola is now building new 1969 Lola T70/3 coupes,like Penskes 1969 Daytona winner,only 250k!

Thanks. I guess they could build a 2C also as it is an aluminum tub too.

[ensign14]

I think greatness connotes something more than mere brilliance. George Best was a great in a way that, say, Gary Lineker was not. Some sort of transcendence over and above.

In terms of outright success the Audi R8 or McLaren MP4/4 (15 wins from 16) are probably the best ever. But they did not have the charisma of the 917.

In some ways perhaps the Bentleys of the 1920s, romantic, dashing, successful, steadfast, count as the greatest. The Mercs of the late 30s would be there had it not been for the even more mad Auto Unions. The Lotus 25 is arguably greater than the 49.

[Gabbiano]

I think raw aesthetics matter, and this is just gorgeous:



I mean, think about it.

The Mach 5

Speed Racer?

No?

I think this car transcends racing. Art. THE race car. (but that is just me).

[ZOOOM]

Try this:

In 1952 the whiz kids had Frank Kurtis build a new rear drive car for Indy. They offset the engine to the left side and lowered the driver along the drive train. The "Mad Rusian" called it a roadster.
It set a track record in qualifing and lapped everybody but second place in its first outing.
The second outing it won going away.
The third outing it won going away again.
It started the trend in racing cars at Indy for 20 years...
It was the "standard" at Indy until a little rear engined "funny car" called a Lotus changed the standard again........

I vote for the Fuel Injection Special.................
ZOOOM

[Kurt Cobain]

It certainly was a thing of beauty.

[mdkiel]

I think raw aesthetics matter, and this is just gorgeous:



I mean, think about it.

The Mach 5

Speed Racer?

No?

I think this car transcends racing. Art. THE race car. (but that is just me).

I saw this car win the USGP at Watkins Glen and have never forgotten it. I agree whole-heartedly.

Love that British Racing Green -- a little tradition before sponsor bucks mucked everything up.

[SJFast]

The greatest race car ever would be the Greer-Black-Prudhomme Top Fuel dragster. There has never been (nor will there ever be) a race car with the win/loss record that thing achieved.

[Openracer]

The Lotus 49 is an amazing car. But my favorite of all time is the Lotus 79 that Mario drove. Beautiful. I like the John Player Special livery best - but it looks great in the Martini colors too.

[Saw150]

Went to Monterey just to see all the Chaparrals again, all in one place...ain't gonna happen again.

...said they'll bring a couple at a time but never 9 at once.

Seeing them in order made you remember that each model was your "new favorite racecar ever"!

There were even 3 Chaparral 1s, in private hands. The 2, 2C, 2D, 2E, 2F, 2G, 2H, 2J, 2K Pennzoil Indy winner also. Some of the models were the same chassis.

They ran 5 at a time with Jim Hall, Jim jr, Phil Hill, Brian Redman, and Vic Elford.