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  • Originally posted by Baulz View Post

    Max has lots of room on the outside to work with he did not need to cut his line into the space that Hamilton was occupying.

    I do feel that if with the exact same collision it was Hamilton that got knocked out of the race Max would have been given a penalty. The stewards felt like they had to punish the driver that stayed in the race to make it "fair".
    Wow, that is quite lame laying the blame on the Race Stewards to make it fair!....I know one of the Race Stewards that was in the room, as have flown around the World to several races with him, and trust me he knows his business and no Ex-Naval Commander who stands 6' 4" is going to let Toto or C. Horner or anybody bully him around!!!

    The Race Stewards have ruled and no Monday Morning Armchair Quarterbacking is going to change the ruling or results from Sunday...Its on to Budapest...
    Ferris

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    • Originally posted by Joe in LA View Post
      This whole thing seems dramatically overblown. The rules require a driver overtaking on the inside to be substantially alongside the outside car to be required to be given room. Exactly where that is judged is pretty fuzzy. Hamilton definitely satisfied that requirement in the run in ot the corner, but Max braked later and reqained ground. Lewis and Max were both off the normal line (which you would expect with two cars going into the corner). Lewis might have been able to go a little more to the right or brake more--but that assumes he was not on the braking and grip limit. The stewards found Lewis "predominately" at fault, not fully at fault. To me, it was a racing incident, but I don't think the ruling or penalty was "wrong." I do find the Red Bull reaction and the "dirty driver" accusations a bit crazy. This is nothing like the Schumacher v. Hill, Schumacher v. Villeneuve or the Senna v. Prost incidents. This is what happens once in a while when you have a tough season long competition and two aggressive drivers.
      Joe as usual pretty good read, although fault is fault as a penalty was applied, regardless of the careful wording....I do agree that RBR sort of went overboard, but in the heat of the moment I can see that, just as Toto raced to see the Stewards and C. Horner soon followed to lobby, but as we all know the Race Stewards are not a Court of legal authority like we know the Courts, but they make the finale race rulings and rarely if ever are they over-turned on Appeal, when you have an incident that is Appealable...This will all die down by the weekend and then the Press will stir it back up on Wednesday-Thursday to attempt to get Max & Lewis to trade blows behind the motorhomes in the Budapest Paddock...
      Ferris

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      • Originally posted by Ferris View Post

        Wow, that is quite lame laying the blame on the Race Stewards to make it fair!....I know one of the Race Stewards that was in the room, as have flown around the World to several races with him, and trust me he knows his business and no Ex-Naval Commander who stands 6' 4" is going to let Toto or C. Horner or anybody bully him around!!!

        The Race Stewards have ruled and no Monday Morning Armchair Quarterbacking is going to change the ruling or results from Sunday...Its on to Budapest...
        I have no problem with the ruling, but feel that the result of the collision impacted their decision.

        If Max came out on top he would have got the penalty, if both cars survived the bump and continued on then no penalty would have been given.

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        • Don't worry. Red Bull is so wound up they will do something stupid. Instead of calming their driver, they are in the media talking smack, calling Hamilton dirty, and just keeping the issue inflamed. Instead of calming Max down, they are winding him up. He drives stupid enough that he won't have any trouble buying into this. Max will chop, block and swerve on you on a good day, but now who knows how far he will take it?

          You know, Christian, Jos and Marko have all been running their mouths, and they are not even involved. This should now be strictly between the two drivers to work out, you know, like men. Remember when we used to be men?

          So, Max is all wound up, angry he was "robbed," it was a "hollow victory" and the team just keeps talking smack. Jos won't even let Toto try to work it out with them. He told him not to call back. They have painted Max in a corner were now he can't back down. It's all about Macho points now, and that's how Red Bull has framed this with all the smack and stupid talk.

          Yeah, Hamilton did you dirty. Hamilton dumped you. Hamilton tried to kill you. Hamilton is a cheater. You were robbed. Bla, bla, bla. Only a team like Red Bull would think that would motivate their driver in a positive way. The way Red Bull is playing this, don't expect Max to go out and drive nice. It's now war. Red Bull has made sure of that.

          Meanwhile, Hamilton stays calm, takes the points and gets ready for Hungary. This is the difference between a mature, responsible competitor, and a dumb ass little kid with his parents and school buddies egging him into a fight.

          People have made up their minds who to blame, but the penalty has been handled out and its settled. The important thing now is for the two drivers to sit down, smoke a joint or something, and figure out how they can race each other and stay out of the fence. This is how drivers settled it since the dawn of time, but the Red Bull brass has turned the intensity up to 11.

          "Is that my *** that I smell burning?" ... Helmet Stogie from "Death spasms of the Mabuchi"

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          • Behind the scenes, Toto Wolf has stayed in contact with the Verstappens. This is presumably to lay groundwork for Max to eventually drive a Merc.

            "He no longer needs to call us anymore"– Jos Verstappen declares fallout with Toto Wolff | The SportsRush

            Jos Verstappen says Toto Wolff should not call them anymore, declares hostility in relations.
            So now we have declared hostility.

            All the Red Bull smack led Jos down the merry path of burning his (and Max') bridge to Mercedes. Now, Max really has nowhere competitive to go. He's stuck at Red Bull (admittedly not a bad place). Because there is nowhere for him to go, Max is not in a great negotiating position next contract time. Of course, this hostility works in their favor because now Max has no other option but to stay at Red Bull.

            Did Red Bull jump on all this drama just to screw Max out of a future Merc deal and lock him in at RB forever?
            "Is that my *** that I smell burning?" ... Helmet Stogie from "Death spasms of the Mabuchi"

            Comment



            • As always, Mika has the rational view............. "They will be even more determined not to lift off the throttle the next time"– Mika Hakkinen's reaction to Max Verstappen crash | The SportsRush
              "Is that my *** that I smell burning?" ... Helmet Stogie from "Death spasms of the Mabuchi"

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Doc Austin View Post
                Behind the scenes, Toto Wolf has stayed in contact with the Verstappens. This is presumably to lay groundwork for Max to eventually drive a Merc.

                "He no longer needs to call us anymore"– Jos Verstappen declares fallout with Toto Wolff | The SportsRush



                So now we have declared hostility.
                Yeah, and if and when Merc comes a callin' and Max takes the moola...

                It's a Hoosier thing, you wouldn't understand...

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Ferris View Post
                  This will all die down by the weekend and then the Press will stir it back up on Wednesday-Thursday to attempt to get Max & Lewis to trade blows behind the motorhomes in the Budapest Paddock...
                  More likely it will be Jos and Toto. They ought to put that on PPV.

                  The biggest tragedy of the entire mess is we didn't get to see Marko and Lauda arguing over this. That would have been epic.

                  Meanwhile, Max and Lewis are probably smoking a joint, playing video games, and laughing at everyone else melting down. Max said some stupid stuff, but I'll give him a pass being in the hospital at the time and all. Lewis has said next to nothing, so I don't see why the two can't work it out as long as long as everyone else stays out of it.
                  "Is that my *** that I smell burning?" ... Helmet Stogie from "Death spasms of the Mabuchi"

                  Comment


                  • Helmut Marko has hired a lawyer and is now alluding to going after Merc in some legal fashion:

                    https://jalopnik.com/helmut-marko-is-not-ok-1847326341

                    It's time for the boys at RB to stop whining and put their big boy pants on, IMHO. Marko is coming unhinged.
                    I ride tandem/with the random/Things don't run the way I planned them.
                    Peter Gabriel, "Humdrum"

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by brundle View Post
                      Helmut Marko has hired a lawyer and is now alluding to going after Merc in some legal fashion:

                      https://jalopnik.com/helmut-marko-is-not-ok-1847326341

                      It's time for the boys at RB to stop whining and put their big boy pants on, IMHO. Marko is coming unhinged.
                      That is really nuts. Imagine if we had this every time there is some contact and a car goes off. I would imagine that F1 management is having some discussions with him, as this precedent would be the end of racing as we know it. One of the few times I miss Bernie--I am sure he would have quashed this through some machiavellian means.

                      Comment


                      • He'd probably have a case in Italy.
                        It's a Hoosier thing, you wouldn't understand...

                        Comment


                        • Oh, yeah. We can trust the courts, who know nothing about racing, to make a judgement on a racing incident. Wow, what a terrific precedent.
                          "Is that my *** that I smell burning?" ... Helmet Stogie from "Death spasms of the Mabuchi"

                          Comment


                          • This is getting ridiculous from Red Bull.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by senorsoupe View Post
                              This is getting ridiculous from Red Bull.
                              https://www.yahoo.com/autos/horner-s...193500752.html

                              “Given the severity of the incident and the lenient penalty,” Horner said. “We are reviewing all data and have the right to request a review. We are therefore still looking at the evidence and considering all of our sporting options.”
                              It's a Hoosier thing, you wouldn't understand...

                              Comment


                              • As much as I have read about this, it almost sounds like Red Bull is suing to get their damages paid too. Damm, wouldn't that be a lovely precedent?

                                Originally posted by Red Bull
                                We are therefore still looking at the evidence and considering all of our sporting options.
                                We'll sue them! I mean, it's a sporting option, right?

                                ////////////////////////////////

                                Red Bull was almost on the verge of putting this thing away, and they probably believed it because it was certainly going their way. It's really bad juju to get backhanded off your perch like that

                                I mean, there's still a long way to go, but if Max had won, that's what, four or five in a row, not including Baku that he had as good as won before a tire blew. I think that would have been a really bad psychological blow for Mercedes, not even considering the points situation would be completely out of control.

                                But, it all went south and not only did this nearly even out the points, imagine the morale boost this will give Mercedes. Now Hamilton controls his own fate, and if he wins the next two he's back in the lead no matter what Max does, but Max will probably do something stupid because he's wound up like a cheap watch too. That, and the Red Bull brass is freaking out so much this isn't going to motivate the rest of the team in a positive way. Maybe they can make that work for them, but from the outside it looks like everyone is running around with their hair on fire.

                                Of course, remembering Nico's championship, along with three at the end of the previous year, Nico won the opening four races. That's seven races in a row he beat Hamilton pretty much fair and square. Instead of letting that affect him negatively, Hamilton ran off his own seven race streak. Barring a late engine failure at Malaysia, Hamilton would have likely won that championship too.

                                So, no matter how roughed up Hamilton gets and no matter how many times you beat him, this guy is never out of the game. Hamilton was sleepwalking through the championship all year because he's had it all his way for so long. No one has ever been better than Hamilton when his back is against the wall. Hamilton is like a slow starting fighter who has to get hit a few times to remind him he's in a fight. Then, look out.

                                Red Bull needs to be conserned that they have awoken the sleeping giant.
                                "Is that my *** that I smell burning?" ... Helmet Stogie from "Death spasms of the Mabuchi"

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