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Incoming -- A new book on the split by John Oreovicz

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  • #46
    Originally posted by The JP View Post

    JThur1, as one keenly interested in auto racing and particularly the Indianapolis 500 Mile Race and USAC racing at the time, I agree with your thoughts on the subject. Had Mr. Hulman still been around and the plane crash not happened, Gurney still would have written his white paper, as the same reasons that caused him to write the paper would have still prevailed. I can't imagine Mr. Hulman or the USAC brain trust that perished in the plane crash, being any more receptive to the car owners than their successors. As you say, the schism was already too deep. The road racers vs oval trackers divide was well established long before 1978. Also many people point to the fact that USAC banned rear-engine sprint cars as the break in the "pipeline".
    What also gets overlooked is Gurney published the "White Paper" before the plane crash, IIRC. It wasn't an "us vs. them" divided by oval and road racing though. There was nothing anti-oval in the "White Paper", and there were owners with an oval background that supported Gurney and were among CART's founders.

    Also, tragic as it was, who of those involved in the plane crash from USAC would have played any significant part in negotiations with Gurney and the breakaway owners? These were not the people in those positions, but that belief seems to have taken over and persisted. It seems a convenient excuse.

    And, yes, while I understand why the sprint car owners did it, banning rear engined cars from the USAC sprint ranks was a final break that could have led to rear engined short track oval experience for more drivers. That happened at the end of 1973, more than four years before the "White Paper."

    The SCCA's failure with Formula 5000 also played a part. When they changed it to a "full bodied" attempt to resurrect Can-Am (badly), Gurney was one of the staunchest critics, but was not alone. There was the brief SCCA/USAC joint sanction, which brought (a few) Indy Cars to road courses, including Gurney's, and looked promising until both sanctioning bodies reverted to their normal level of competency

    "Versions of a story that are more tidy, compact, and camera-ready should generally be viewed as historically suspect." - Jackson Landers

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    • #47
      I can not disagree with any of this... which is why the story needs to start immediately post war.
      I'll see YOU at the races!

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      • #48
        https://oilpressure.com/2021/03/22/i...to-be-written/
        "Each day well lived makes every yesterday a dream of happiness and every tomorrow a vision of hope. Look well therefore to this one day for it, and it alone, is life"
        ~ Sanskrit poem attributed to Kalidasa, "Salutation to the Dawn"


        Brian's Wish

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        • #49
          Thanks, that was a good read. I'm getting excited for this book, especially after being reminded of the Sigur Whitaker snoozer.

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          • #50
            Ignorance is bliss.

            1991, Memorial Day Sunday, i flipped on the television and saw an Indianapolis 500 for the first time. So, i didn't see despains story. I knew nothing of their troubles.

            Based solely on the actual product on the track, they sold me hook line and sinker.
            "Far better it is to dare mighty things, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat" -Teddy Roosevelt

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            • #51
              I lived it once. Don't care to re-live it.

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              • #52
                Oreo should busy himself writing NASCAR / Where It All Went Wrong.
                "Far better it is to dare mighty things, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat" -Teddy Roosevelt

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                • #53
                  How about a book on what should have happened , instead

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by TeamFoyt View Post
                    How about a book on what should have happened , instead
                    Now the question is: W H A T should have happened?
                    without knowing that, there is no such book to be written.....

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                    • #55
                      There’s plenty to discuss. Hindsight is 20-20. Leave behind the defense of the side people were on. Look forward. From way back in the late 70s thru RP buying. It all could have been different.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Indyote View Post

                        Now the question is: W H A T should have happened?
                        without knowing that, there is no such book to be written.....
                        Gordon and Stewart. Could've, should've, would've
                        "Far better it is to dare mighty things, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat" -Teddy Roosevelt

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                        • #57
                          Well RP was the first to fully switch back to the IRL, IIRC. Now he owns the place. Someone should ask him.
                          “Church supper with grandma and granddad, lets go out and have ourselves the best time we ever had" - John Mellencamp

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Unzerdog View Post

                            Gordon and Stewart. Could've, should've, would've
                            But with their teaching years primarily on dirt and with front-engined stuff, not that strange that team owners had more faith in the potential of drivers who were schooled with rear engined aerodynamic dependent asphalt racers since the series that Indy was part of consited of primarily such tracks using such cars.

                            Besides that, another factor that I think is terribly overlooked: fresh blood within CART gat little to no chance with so many veterans refusing to step down and keep on trying to win Indy at long last.
                            During the 80s and 90s the length of carreers of drivers in top level single seaters outside CART & Indy was not that long, there were more drivers retiring and/or replaced. While in the USA there were a number of drivers who simply kept on racing and as long as they were avaialble, kept seats occupied and/or sponsorship money away from the younger generation.
                            Not that I curse or blame those veterans for what they did, they were fully entitled to do so. But it came at a prize for the younger generation of drivers.
                            Like Gordon and Stewart .....

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Oddy View Post
                              Well RP was the first to fully switch back to the IRL, IIRC. Now he owns the place. Someone should ask him.
                              I still wonder what he would have done had it not been because of his then current sponsor.
                              It was not permitted for tobacco brands to be represented in more than one single racing formula, so the logo's could be used in all formulas but the names on only a single formula.
                              When RP's sponsor wanted to be seen by name at Indy most of all, he had little choice to go to the series in which Indy was included and give up on CART.

                              Ganassi ran Target on his CART entires but also at Indy.

                              This limit on name appearance of tobacco companies on race cars in different formula's certainly must have had its effect in the CART haemorrhage of teams in the first half of the 00's.

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Indyote View Post

                                I still wonder what he would have done had it not been because of his then current sponsor.
                                It was not permitted for tobacco brands to be represented in more than one single racing formula, so the logo's could be used in all formulas but the names on only a single formula.
                                When RP's sponsor wanted to be seen by name at Indy most of all, he had little choice to go to the series in which Indy was included and give up on CART.

                                Ganassi ran Target on his CART entires but also at Indy.

                                This limit on name appearance of tobacco companies on race cars in different formula's certainly must have had its effect in the CART haemorrhage of teams in the first half of the 00's.
                                Did RP do an Indy only attempt first like Ganassi or did he just switch series? Wasn't it RP that opened the flood gates?
                                “Church supper with grandma and granddad, lets go out and have ourselves the best time we ever had" - John Mellencamp

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