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YouTuber nascarman History and his take on the 'S' word

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  • #31
    If Indycar hadn't had a split, it likely would have retained higher TV ratings and been in a better position through the 1990s and 2000s to retain top talent. Knowing what we know now about live sports TV rights, they may have been every bit as affirming and supporting as tobacco money. Possibly much more so. But it is what it is. I've learned much about Tony George which I appreciate and much about the CART ownership I find regrettable. It is what it is and now there's only one series (which has a very solid base of talent).

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    • #32
      Part III is up this morning...

      “America is all about speed. Hot, nasty, badass speed.” - Eleanor Roosevelt

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      • #33
        deleted, was too offensive,and provoking.
        Last edited by Indyote; 03-01-2021, 02:40 PM.

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        • #34
          Part 4 is up:

          http://www.honorflight.org/

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          • #35
            Originally posted by RacingPortaJohn View Post
            Part 4 is up:

            The Continental Tire deal was known at the time, but how well known was the number ($36 MILLION, versus $500k Firestone was paying) floated by Randy Bernard during the interview featured?
            “America is all about speed. Hot, nasty, badass speed.” - Eleanor Roosevelt

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            • #36
              That was the first time I heard those numbers. Regardless, if the team owners didn't feel safe with the tires offered that is a non-starter.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by LAindycarfan80 View Post
                That was the first time I heard those numbers. Regardless, if the team owners didn't feel safe with the tires offered that is a non-starter.
                I have to say I don't buy that answer. Firestone was out of the sport for about 20 years or so when they came back, but they developed a tire and tested it. Continental isn't some fly-by-night operation, they would have done the same. From my recollection of the discussion here at the time, the main resistance to losing Firestone was essentially heritage.
                “America is all about speed. Hot, nasty, badass speed.” - Eleanor Roosevelt

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Sweaty Teddy View Post

                  I have to say I don't buy that answer. Firestone was out of the sport for about 20 years or so when they came back, but they developed a tire and tested it. Continental isn't some fly-by-night operation, they would have done the same. From my recollection of the discussion here at the time, the main resistance to losing Firestone was essentially heritage.
                  And Dario wining about it
                  "Paff has been closer to the mark than anyone will give him credit for."

                  Richard Kimble 11/18/2010

                  "Paff is far more right than any of you will EVER give him credit for.

                  As non politically correct and un IndyCar friendly as it is, it's the truth. "

                  SeeuInMay 12/29/2010

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Sweaty Teddy View Post

                    I have to say I don't buy that answer. Firestone was out of the sport for about 20 years or so when they came back, but they developed a tire and tested it. Continental isn't some fly-by-night operation, they would have done the same. From my recollection of the discussion here at the time, the main resistance to losing Firestone was essentially heritage.
                    If I was running the sport, I would definitely take the deal. Considering there are series out there with even less reputable tire partners out there, if a tiremaker was giving my series 70x more to run their tires, it will only raise the asking price for the deal after that. That being said, tires are a huge critical piece of the car that you do no want to go wrong, and we have seen tire makers that are out to lunch cause huge problems for a racing series.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by LAindycarfan80 View Post
                      That being said, tires are a huge critical piece of the car that you do no want to go wrong, and we have seen tire makers that are out to lunch cause huge problems for a racing series.
                      True, but more often than not that being out to lunch was the side effect of trying to gain an competitive advantage in a multi-manufacturer format.
                      “America is all about speed. Hot, nasty, badass speed.” - Eleanor Roosevelt

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Truth Detector View Post

                        Interesting. I'm told here that Indycar wasn't Jeff's goal. 15:09 mark suggests otherwise.
                        It wasn't. He was 13 when he said that; 13 year olds can say they want to be Indy car drivers one week and astronauts the next. By the time he was testing a Super Vee several years later he was focused on NASCAR, and although I don't have time to search it out just now, there is a video on YouTube of him explicitly stating as much. A test with an outfit that could have led to an Indy car seat, and here he is telling ESPN he would rather be somewhere else.

                        Jeff is about my age. By the mid-1980s, everybody knew the path to Indy cars, and it wasn't dirt-track "spridgets" anymore, and hadn't been for years. Jeff and his stepdad weren't stupid, they had to have known this. If they were serious about getting him into Indy cars down the line, they could have gone into karts and formula cars that would have got him there.

                        They didn't. They went all-in for ovals. The kind of thing you do when your goal is a series that at the time was almost all ovals.

                        Jeff Gordon was not going to be some kind of savior for Indy car racing. (Hell, there were plenty of longtime NASCAR fans like myself who found him annoying enough in Winston Cup. Although he was, admittedly, much preferable to the interchangeable dude-bros that inhabit the sport now.) CART and USAC's problems were way too deep for that.
                        Last edited by Sea Fury; 04-01-2021, 01:38 PM.
                        "Only a fool fights in a burning house."-Kang

                        "If you listen to fools....The Maaahhhhb Ruuuules....."-Ronnie James Dio

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                        • #42
                          I watched the whole 4-part series in one sitting finally. Generally it was OK...mostly a matter-of-fact look at things. I don't think it really went that deep. I don't think I learned anything. As is with all his videos, it's largely a collection of contemporary video clips and newspapers clippings (not that there's anything wrong with that) but no insider information...no exclusive interviews with the people involved.

                          I spotted a couple factual errors, if I watch again I'll make note of them. It dwells a lot on the events of the month of May 1996...as it should...but I think at the expense of focusing on what was a 12-year situation. Lots of us and downs. I'm not sure Las Vegas 2011 has a whole to do with the Split other than noting it was the last race utilizing the Dallara IR-03/05 chassis.

                          Plus zero mention of the 1996 Pebble Beach meeting between TG and RP...where they considered a 42-car field.
                          Doctorindy.com

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Doctorindy View Post
                            Plus zero mention of the 1996 Pebble Beach meeting between TG and RP...where they considered a 42-car field.
                            I personally would love to learn more about this particular meeting. I'm hoping John's new book coming out soon details this.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Sweaty Teddy View Post

                              True, but more often than not that being out to lunch was the side effect of trying to gain an competitive advantage in a multi-manufacturer format.
                              Except that never happened in Indy racing. When both Firestone and Goodyear were going at each others throats there were never issues with tire failures. Not so in some other series of course.

                              And while IMS/IndyCar (and now Penske Corporation) million$ from exclusive tire deals the teams pay through the nose for their tires. When there was competition the teams were getting tires for free.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by indyrjc View Post

                                Except that never happened in Indy racing. When both Firestone and Goodyear were going at each others throats there were never issues with tire failures. Not so in some other series of course.

                                And while IMS/IndyCar (and now Penske Corporation) million$ from exclusive tire deals the teams pay through the nose for their tires. When there was competition the teams were getting tires for free.
                                True. The Goodyear/Hoosier fiascos being the most obvious examples, but Michelin/Bridgestone in Formula One is another cautionary tale.

                                While it didn't bother me all that much in moment, thinking about that Continental Tire deal - and the numbers involved - angers me. I'd put it up there the Marlboro Championship Trail fiasco. The Series struggles and struggles, but when someone comes along looking to inject proper money into the series (and I assume into marketing) short-sightedness and closed minds win out.
                                “America is all about speed. Hot, nasty, badass speed.” - Eleanor Roosevelt

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