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  • #46
    Originally posted by Indyote View Post
    With this demand on older cars disappearing, Roger was also ending up being stuck with his older cars and I wonder if, when he couldn't ged rid of the 84C's and 85C's anymore, even if he wanted it, this might have been a factor in deciding not to let the Indy winners go anymore since he had a few of them by now himself already.
    Later, when he went back to racing Penske PC chassis, it seemed like he more or less stopped selling his used cars to other teams. Except for the Tony Bettenhausen team, which ran year-old Penskes for a time. The 1989 "Patrick situation" singly, was a little different, as was allowing Rahal to borrow PC's in 1994 for the 500. Aside from those two unique circumstances, there were a few used PC chassis here and there that did end up in AIS, but the rest didn't seem to race much again.
    Doctorindy.com

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Doctorindy View Post

      Later, when he went back to racing Penske PC chassis, it seemed like he more or less stopped selling his used cars to other teams. Except for the Tony Bettenhausen team, which ran year-old Penskes for a time. The 1989 "Patrick situation" singly, was a little different, as was allowing Rahal to borrow PC's in 1994 for the 500. Aside from those two unique circumstances, there were a few used PC chassis here and there that did end up in AIS, but the rest didn't seem to race much again.

      I recall some Granatelli fielded Penske-Buicks in was it 89 and/or 90?
      And Mark Dismore had his big one against the edge of the pitlane separation wall in a PC17 as well as I recall.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Indyote View Post


        I recall some Granatelli fielded Penske-Buicks in was it 89 and/or 90?
        And Mark Dismore had his big one against the edge of the pitlane separation wall in a PC17 as well as I recall.
        Arciero ran a PC17 in the late 80's - which I think was the one Dismore wrecked in 1991.

        I think Ganassi used a PC18 for part of the year in 1990 - leftover chassis from his split with Patrick.
        Real drivers don't need fenders!

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Pelican Joe View Post

          Arciero ran a PC17 in the late 80's - which I think was the one Dismore wrecked in 1991.

          I think Ganassi used a PC18 for part of the year in 1990 - leftover chassis from his split with Patrick.

          I've taken the time to dig withing my database. This is what I have combined with respect to allocated chassis number as what are most likely cars used.
          Results listed with the reservation that I don't claim this to be the 100% truth but coming the closest to waht I can make up based on data found and obtained..


          Arciero did indeed use a PC17, chassis PC17-005, the factory T-car in 88. Didier Theys had a DFX engine in the car in '89.

          in '90 Randy Lewis used PC17-007 with Buick engine.
          Rich Vogler used 2 PC17-Buicks but failed to qualify in '90.

          Granatelli ran '89 PC18-Buicks in '90: Two of them were Penske works cars of 1989.
          Didier Theys ran #70, the PC18-001 which in '89 was Sullivan's #1
          Kevin Cogan ran the PC18-003, one year before the Unser #25
          Tom Sneva had PC18-James Bond

          And then there was Eddie Cheever in PC18-008



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          • #50
            Another team that received PC17 chassis(es) was Walther Racing.

            They had previously purchased the McLaren that Tom Sneva broke the 200 miles per hour barrier in 1977 with. In exchange for Penske getting this car back, Walther got at least one year-old PC17 in 1989, which Phil Krueger failed to qualify with.

            Salt Walther had (presumably) the same car in 1990, but failed to qualify with it at Indianapolis and Michigan.

            In 1991, he drove a two-year old PC18 at Indianapolis, but failed to qualify once again.
            Last edited by Rhino Ryan; 08-27-2019, 11:40 PM.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Rhino Ryan View Post
              Another team that received PC-17 chassis(es) was Walther Racing.

              They had previously purchased the McLaren that Tom Sneva broke the 200 miles per hour barrier in 1977 with. In exchange for Penske getting this car back, Walther got at least one year-old PC17 in 1989, which Phil Krueger failed to qualify with.

              Salt Walther had (presumably) the same car in 1990, but failed to qualify with it at Indianapolis and Michigan.

              In 1991, he drove a two-year old PC18 at Indianapolis, but failed to qualify once again.


              I had left out 1991 since my data is not very detailed on that. But you are right, he DNQéd a '89 PC18 that year. I have heard rumors this was an ex-Ganassi car (Maybe even of Patrick&Ganassi origin?)
              Interestig detail about that McLaren too! I can imagine once Penske changed his mind about the older cars this being one of the few non-Indy winners he dearly wanted back. Come to think of it, I would not be at all surprised if he wanted/wants the sister car of that year, driven by Andretti back as well. Though Tom was the first and only one who broke the 200 mp/h barrier in qualifying, Mario holds the record for being the first ever to be over 200, be it unofficially in May practice (Wed May 11, 77 ) in the other Penske entry.
              If he doesn't have the CAM2 car back already, it is one I can imagine him wanting that one back too.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Rhino Ryan View Post

                Salt Walther had (presumably) the same car in 1990, but failed to qualify with it at Indianapolis and Michigan.
                I thought he qualified at Michigan, but withdrew the morning of the race.

                http://www.honorflight.org/

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by RacingPortaJohn View Post

                  I thought he qualified at Michigan, but withdrew the morning of the race.
                  According the CART 90/91 annual, Walther did not put down a qualifying speed but neitehr did Guerrero (st 25 fin 5 ) and Raul Boesel (st 24 fin 9 ) as well as Tiny Bettenhausen (st 23 fin 22 ) and Buddy Lazier (st 26 fin 26) Tero Palmrorth and Al Unser Sr had no times and didn't start either. In the case of Al Unser not that strange because he wrecked his car and broke a leg.
                  Walther's car was listed to be a PC17.


                  With `only` 29 entries there was not much reason to insist on a Q time and simply add cars to the field, given the high retirement rate at Michigan why not?

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Indyote View Post

                    According the CART 90/91 annual, Walther did not put down a qualifying speed but neitehr did Guerrero (st 25 fin 5 ) and Raul Boesel (st 24 fin 9 ) as well as Tiny Bettenhausen (st 23 fin 22 ) and Buddy Lazier (st 26 fin 26) Tero Palmrorth and Al Unser Sr had no times and didn't start either. In the case of Al Unser not that strange because he wrecked his car and broke a leg.
                    Walther's car was listed to be a PC17.


                    With `only` 29 entries there was not much reason to insist on a Q time and simply add cars to the field, given the high retirement rate at Michigan why not?
                    I think Salt wrecked during practice and was not able to qualify??
                    Real drivers don't need fenders!

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by PaddockMoose View Post
                      While browsing this link the year 1916 caught my eye. A 1913 Peugot won the race by Dario Resta, but that's not what got my attention. Its future owner Lindley Bothwell took this 1913 car and entered it in the 1949 race! I guess he practiced fast enough to obtain his driver's certificate. Apparently the speeds he was trying to reach were too great for the 36 year old chassis so it did not qualify, mainly due to handling (go figure). Fascinating read. There is some conflicting information regarding its history. A 36 year old car running today would be from the year 1983. Not quite so far-fetched as it must have been back then.
                      www.ragingphotos.com

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Roadrage View Post

                        While browsing this link the year 1916 caught my eye. A 1913 Peugot won the race by Dario Resta, but that's not what got my attention. Its future owner Lindley Bothwell took this 1913 car and entered it in the 1949 race! I guess he practiced fast enough to obtain his driver's certificate. Apparently the speeds he was trying to reach were too great for the 36 year old chassis so it did not qualify, mainly due to handling (go figure). Fascinating read. There is some conflicting information regarding its history. A 36 year old car running today would be from the year 1983. Not quite so far-fetched as it must have been back then.
                        Bothwell got the car over 100 miles per hour - which is pretty crazy. It's been disputed, however, that the car is the 1916 winner. I believe the owner of the car still claims it's the Resta car, but I'm convinced it is not.
                        Real drivers don't need fenders!

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Indyote View Post


                          Roger Penske became much mor aware about the importance of race winning cars later on in his career. When he bought the new updated '73 M16C's he discarded the for him by then redundant '72 M16B's, including the Donohue winner. By that thime he wasn't as wealthy as in later years and everything worth money to finance his program in addition to the sponsors was sold in order to make place for the newer stuff and get revenues
                          It was after '81 that he became more concerned about keeping his Indywinners, the '81 is the last one he let go ut of his hands.
                          While this car didn’t win the 500, it does have other significance. It is owned and was restored by 2 families from Wisconsin. This is the 1972 Eagle that Donohue drove in 1973 in what would be his last 500. While that is significant by itself, The Rest of the Story (as Paul Harvey used to say) is that it turned out to be Rick Mears’ FIRST Indy car ride. Bill Simpson bought it from Penske and raced it. Simpson retired from driving when, during a practice session at IMS, he was thinking about a business matter. He realized that he no longer had the absolute concentration needed. He put Mears in the car for one race in 1976. Later in the season, he sold it to Art Sugai with the stipulation that he put Mears in the car. Mears drove some races for Sugai in 1976 and 1977.

                          Other photos: http://s133.photobucket.com/user/fla...20Indy%20Eagle

                          033107Donohue73IndyEagle00007.jpg

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by flatlander_48 View Post

                            While this car didn’t win the 500, it does have other significance. It is owned and was restored by 2 families from Wisconsin. This is the 1972 Eagle that Donohue drove in 1973 in what would be his last 500. While that is significant by itself, The Rest of the Story (as Paul Harvey used to say) is that it turned out to be Rick Mears’ FIRST Indy car ride. Bill Simpson bought it from Penske and raced it. Simpson retired from driving when, during a practice session at IMS, he was thinking about a business matter. He realized that he no longer had the absolute concentration needed. He put Mears in the car for one race in 1976. Later in the season, he sold it to Art Sugai with the stipulation that he put Mears in the car. Mears drove some races for Sugai in 1976 and 1977.

                            Other photos: http://s133.photobucket.com/user/fla...20Indy%20Eagle

                            033107Donohue73IndyEagle00007.jpg
                            The team at Kettle Moraine did a fantastic job on this car - which is one of my fave open wheel cars of all time. The 72 Eagle itself was a beautiful design - but the Sunoco paint scheme really puts it over the top.
                            Real drivers don't need fenders!

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                            • #59
                              It is restored back to its original configuration of the roll hoop bracing being attached to the Offenhauser. The photos were taken at the International Motor Racing Research Center in the Village of Watkins Glen...

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