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Weird and specific question related to 1967 Indy 500 qualifying re: Gary Congdon

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  • Weird and specific question related to 1967 Indy 500 qualifying re: Gary Congdon

    I'm Tom and I'm a nerd

    So last night for fun I was combing through the press kit for the 1967 Indy 500 from doctorindy's magnificent collection (thanks doc!) and have stumbled across a weird error and information gap in the qualifying summary that I can't seem to figure out so I was wondering if anyone could figure out where the error is.

    According to the press summary, Gary Congdon in car 84 completed a qualifying run on day 3 at 162.783 which should have been enough to get him in the show (Larry Dickson was slowest qualifier at 162.543) yet on bubble day it says he was bumped by Jochen Rindt whose time of 162.389 had just been bumped by Jackie Stewart. After Rindt is purported to have bumped Congdon Al Miller bumped Jim Hurtubise's speed of 162.411 which (if the qualifying order in the summary is correct) would mean that Congdon's actual speed was somewhere between 162.389 and 162.411. Wikipedia says that Congdon's speed was 161.783 which would not match the daily report as it says Congdon bumped Bob Harkey who had set a time of 162.140. I can't find any mention of a penalty or disqualification against Congdon so I am really curious to know if anyone knows the actual speed of his qualifying run? Or if there is some other story about Congdon that month.

  • #2
    Originally posted by senorsoupe View Post
    ...I can't find any mention of a penalty or disqualification against Congdon so I am really curious to know if anyone knows the actual speed of his qualifying run? Or if there is some other story about Congdon that month.
    You had two days of qualifying as you mentioned. Congdon's speed on Saturday was 162.783 as you state and he bumped Harkey. Congdon wasn't bumped by Rindt until Sunday when Rindt went 163.051 after having been bumped himself in another car by Jackie Stewart at 164.099.

    Congdon was bumped fair and square. The part that you may have confused is that Jochen Rindt's first car (at 162.389) was bumped and he jumped into another car to bump his way back in. Remember that in those days once a car was bumped it was done for the year and couldn't be run anymore.


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    • #3
      Originally posted by indyrjc View Post

      You had two days of qualifying as you mentioned. Congdon's speed on Saturday was 162.783 as you state and he bumped Harkey. Congdon wasn't bumped by Rindt until Sunday when Rindt went 163.051 after having been bumped himself in another car by Jackie Stewart at 164.099.

      Congdon was bumped fair and square. The part that you may have confused is that Jochen Rindt's first car (at 162.389) was bumped and he jumped into another car to bump his way back in. Remember that in those days once a car was bumped it was done for the year and couldn't be run anymore.

      But if Congdon did a 162.783 he should never have been on the bubble, the next driver after him to be bumped, Jim Hurtubise had a speed of 162.411 which was slower than 162.783, there was also Lucien Bianchi at 162.484 who was bumped and the final car on the bubble was Dickson at 162.543, all slower than 162.783.

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      • #4
        It appears there's an error(s) in the Daily Trackside Report. The Indianapolis Star lists this...


        Sat. 5-20-1967
        #84 Gary Congdon
        Lap 1- 162.221
        Lap 2- 162.484
        Lap 3- 163.103
        Lap 4- 161.783
        Total- 162.396
        (tentatively 32nd on the grid)

        At the end of the day Saturday, Jochen Rindt was sitting 33rd with a 4-lap average of 162.389

        Somehow they've typo'd Congdon's 4th lap speed with the total.
        Doctorindy.com

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        • #5
          I'm glad Doctorindy posted confirmation of what I suspected, namely that it was nothing more than a simple error or typo. It isn't uncommon. They happen.
          "Versions of a story that are more tidy, compact, and camera-ready should generally be viewed as historically suspect." - Jackson Landers

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          • #6
            Thanks team! I figured it was a typo somewhere but was curious as to what the actual time was.

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            • #7
              ANother weird question related to these trackside reports, I'm now skimming 1969 and the chassis for LeeRoy Yarbrough doesn't match the official IMS boxscore, in the trackside report it says the 67 car was an Eagle (which is listed in other sources) but the official IMS Box Score lists it as a Vollstedt, not sure what to believe lol

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              • #8
                Jim Robbins had 4 cars entered in 1969. #10, #17, #27 and #67. The 27 was practiced by Revson , Malloy and Leeroy a 1966 Vollstedt
                #10 was qualified by Malloy a vollstedt 66
                #17 Jerry Grant practiced a 67 Vollstedy
                #67 was a 68 Eagle driven by LeeRoy.
                "Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved
                body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting
                "...holy $^!+...what a ride!"
                >

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by senorsoupe View Post
                  .....
                  According to the press summary, Gary Congdon in car 84 .......
                  Back to Gary Congdon. Jerry Eisert, whom Congdon drove for several times, always said that Gary was well liked and had a lot of potential. He was working his way through multiple Championship rides when he was killed in something of a freak accident in a midget.

                  Another interesting note about Gary is that he had a younger brother named Jeff who played basketball in both the NBA and ABA in the late '60s/early '70s.

                  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Congdon

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by indyrjc View Post
                    Back to Gary Congdon. Jerry Eisert, whom Congdon drove for several times, always said that Gary was well liked and had a lot of potential. He was working his way through multiple Championship rides when he was killed in something of a freak accident in a midget.

                    Another interesting note about Gary is that he had a younger brother named Jeff who played basketball in both the NBA and ABA in the late '60s/early '70s.

                    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Congdon
                    Indeed. Gary Congdon had some very good qualifying results. Most notable were 3rd and 4th starting spots at Langhorne in 1966. He scored a career best tying 4th in that second Langhorne race, yet still found himself replaced at the end of the season (he also finished 4th in the non-points race at Fuji). 1967 was spent in a variety of rides in what could charitably be called not the best equipment. For most of them that's being very charitable.

                    I think I was the first to mention Gary's brother Jeff here at TF. For a brief time, he got to play pro basketball for the short-lived Anaheim Amigos, near where he'd starred in high school (in Garden Grove). He got drafted by the NBA, but never played any regular season games. Jeff was quite the high school athlete, starring in football and in baseball as an infielder as well, until an elbow injury ended his baseball days.
                    "Versions of a story that are more tidy, compact, and camera-ready should generally be viewed as historically suspect." - Jackson Landers

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                    • #11
                      Another random observation about these (thread title should be changed to "random observations about trackside reports" is how close things were at the bottom of the timesheet in 1989. Had Johnny Rutherford's last lap not dropped of by that much (even by 0.1 MPH) he would have been in the show no problem, a little math shows me that if his final lap was 0.1 MPH faster he would have had a 4 lap average of 213.123 which would have been faster than both Bernard Jourdain and Didier Theys and sin the show, as it was he was slower than both and got bumped.

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