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A little look on IndyCar Street Circuits...

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  • #61
    Originally posted by ACCP View Post
    There aren't enough churches around street circuits, though I would certainly be upset if I was a member of the congregation and had to miss 9AM Mass because of morning warm up!
    But if a member of the congregation is also a motor sport fan... this experience would be 'heavenly music' to his ears...



    Originally posted by flatlander_48 View Post
    F1 was in downtown Detroit from ‘82 through ‘88. I was there for every one. I lived in Toledo, OH which was about a 1 hour drive to downtown Detroit. Typically I would be there on Friday and Saturday with a General Admission ticket and a Paddock Pass. The Paddock was downstairs in Cobo Hall. On Sunday I would stay home and watch on TV. The only year I actually had a grandstand ticket was ‘84 for Nelson Piquet’s win. I attended all 3 days.

    That photo of the hairpin at the northeast end of the course shows why they only had that for the 1st year. That accident that is just starting in the photo blocked the width of the track and everyone had to stop until cars were moved.

    Some significant things did happen during that 7 year run:

    • In ‘82 John Watson went from 17th to 1st to win. Running a McLaren-Cosworth against turbo cars, he took advantage of instantly torquey Cosworth in order to get around the turbo cars with their lag.
    • In ‘83 Michele Alboreto took the last win for a Cosworth DFV powered F1 car. I had occasion to talk to Ken Tyrrell at an SAE exposition a year or 2 later. He told me that they never knew how Alboreto managed to get the car stopped as the brakes always showed hardly any wear.
    • Senna won 3 straight times to close out the run in downtown Detroit.
    • ’88 was the year of the all-conquering McLaren MP4/4


    There is an excellent picture book on the F1 years by photographer Roger Hart, called Postcards From Detroit.

    I was also there for the CART continuation, ‘89 through ‘91. In ‘92 I moved away from Ohio and never did make it out for the Belle Isle races.

    Oh, can you tell us something more about your experience, flatlander_48??

    Any one to add his personal experience for the circuits already seen??

    Cleveland (OH)
    Ceasars Palace (LV)
    Long Beach (CAL)
    Meadowlands (NY)
    Tamiami Park (MIA)
    Toronto (ONT)
    Detroit (DET)
    Vancouver (COL)
    Denver (DNV)
    Detroit Belle Isle (DET)

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    • #62
      Originally posted by AlfaRomeo182T View Post
      For 1992 race offficials plans to move to Manhattan, using a street-course around the World Trace Center. Cost implications canceled the project.
      Info about the proposed NYC race: LINK


      Last month I was in NYC, and while visiting the 9/11 Memorial, I took a brief walk around the perimeter roads out of curiosity. To see where the race track layout would have been. I don't think it's perfectly re-traceable anymore because some of the roads have been slightly reconfigured since they rebuilt the WTC, but either way you can see where it would have been set up.

      Looking at it today, I don't see how they could have done it. It just seems like a crazy plan. I have no idea where fans would have sat, how and where bleachers could have even been set up, and how anyone (even TV cameras) could have seen anything with the tall buildings everywhere and cavernous surroundings...not to mention the walls and catch fences that would have exacerbated the situation. Maybe it sounded like a neat idea, but entirely impractical.
      Doctorindy.com

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      • #63
        Originally posted by Doctorindy View Post
        Info about the proposed NYC race: LINK


        Last month I was in NYC, and while visiting the 9/11 Memorial, I took a brief walk around the perimeter roads out of curiosity. To see where the race track layout would have been. I don't think it's perfectly re-traceable anymore because some of the roads have been slightly reconfigured since they rebuilt the WTC, but either way you can see where it would have been set up.

        Looking at it today, I don't see how they could have done it. It just seems like a crazy plan. I have no idea where fans would have sat, how and where bleachers could have even been set up, and how anyone (even TV cameras) could have seen anything with the tall buildings everywhere and cavernous surroundings...not to mention the walls and catch fences that would have exacerbated the situation. Maybe it sounded like a neat idea, but entirely impractical.

        I agree, totally impractical for the 90's... but the plan to host a race in New York sounds wonderful to some promoters yet. Formula E has achieved a marketable NY ePrix with a race host in Brooklyn, with the Skyline as a backdrop, giving the idea that it was in the Manhattan area after all.

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        • #64
          Sure...

          Some other impressions:

          • The first year was miserable due to rain, but when the cars started up and moved out onto the track, I couldn’t believe it: FORMULA ONE IS ACTUALLY HERE IN DETROIT!!!!
            • I was not impressed by the organization as the drivers had to demand some changes with the fencing and run-off areas in a few places. Practice sessions were delayed as a result.

          • The Trans-Am races an Saturday were always interesting. Those who impressed me were Willy T, Klaus Ludwig and Haywood and Stuck in the Audis
            • During qualifying, Ludwig in a turbo Merkur did a thing where, if I’m not mistaken, he stood on the gas and the brakes simultaneously in order to keep the boost up.

          • One year I stood trackside under the overhang of the RenCen parking structure. The reverberation of the Trans-Am cars almost made me sick. If I had stayed any longer, I would have tossed my cookies. 10 minutes later, after getting out from under the parking structure, I was fine. I have never had noise make me sick like that before or since.

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          • #65
            Went to the first two Detroit Grand Prix with my Dad and all I can remember was how impressed I was with a new kid from Brazil.

            "Ooh woo, I'm a Rebel just for kicks, now
            I been feeling it since 1966, now..."

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            • #66
              Raْl Boesel?

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by Michael Ferner View Post
                Ah, yes. Foreign money is no longer wanted in the US.
                Pretty sure it was the SoCal Toyota Dealers that sponsored the LBGP, not the Toyota mothership. So technically it was part foreign/part domestic money. And now Honda/Acura has picked up the sponsorship, not sure if it's a similar deal with the Acura dealers but it's hard to claim foreign money isn't wanted when another Japanese brand will be the sponsor.
                If you make something idiot proof, the world will build a better idiot.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by Michael Ferner View Post
                  Raْl Boesel?
                  Missed it by | | that much...

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by BrandonW77 View Post
                    Pretty sure it was the SoCal Toyota Dealers that sponsored the LBGP, not the Toyota mothership.
                    It was a hybrid deal that evolved over the years that did involve Toyota Motors North America and the advertising budgets/allowances of the Southern California Toyota Dealers group.
                    "I would really like to go to NASCAR. I really enjoy NASCAR and if I could be there in a couple of years that's where I'd want to be." - Jeff Gordon (after testing a Formula Super Vee)

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by flatlander_48 View Post
                      Missed it by | | that much...
                      But Chico Serra raced only in the first Detroit Grand Prix, and Nelson Piquet was hardly a "new kid". So, maybe you were thinking of Roberto Guerrero, but he wasn't from Brazil.

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Michael Ferner View Post
                        Ah, yes. Foreign money is no longer wanted in the US.
                        That was tongue-in-cheek, obviously.

                        Not very uplifting when you have to explain it...

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Michael Ferner View Post
                          But Chico Serra raced only in the first Detroit Grand Prix, and Nelson Piquet was hardly a "new kid". So, maybe you were thinking of Roberto Guerrero, but he wasn't from Brazil.
                          No, my speculation was Piquet. True, he wasn’t “new” at that point, but he should have won in ‘83 save for a cut tire...

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                          • #73
                            Long Beach:

                            I was there in 2001. VERY crowded place. Hard to find a decent place to watch when walking around. Hope to finally go back this year...

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by flatlander_48 View Post
                              Sure...

                              Some other impressions:
                              • The first year was miserable due to rain, but when the cars started up and moved out onto the track, I couldn’t believe it: FORMULA ONE IS ACTUALLY HERE IN DETROIT!!!!
                                • I was not impressed by the organization as the drivers had to demand some changes with the fencing and run-off areas in a few places. Practice sessions were delayed as a result.
                              • The Trans-Am races an Saturday were always interesting. Those who impressed me were Willy T, Klaus Ludwig and Haywood and Stuck in the Audis
                                • During qualifying, Ludwig in a turbo Merkur did a thing where, if I’m not mistaken, he stood on the gas and the brakes simultaneously in order to keep the boost up.
                              • One year I stood trackside under the overhang of the RenCen parking structure. The reverberation of the Trans-Am cars almost made me sick. If I had stayed any longer, I would have tossed my cookies. 10 minutes later, after getting out from under the parking structure, I was fine. I have never had noise make me sick like that before or since.

                              Originally posted by Frank Capua View Post
                              Went to the first two Detroit Grand Prix with my Dad and all I can remember was how impressed I was with a new kid from Brazil.

                              I had to be exciting to see this different types of competition (F1, Trans-Am, etc) on the Detroit Circuit. Their different aproach on speed traps, curves, the impressions near the track, sound...
                              This last (sound), is really stressing some times, as you said flatlander_48, when buildings make the impression of a louder sound / reverbeartion... I had this sensationg on an historic meeting on Zandvoort (NL, Masters Historic GP 2017), and is very annoying.

                              For example, if a New York GP would had been a reality during the 80's/90's, as Doctorindy indicates some post before, this reverberation / echo would had been a real problem.



                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by flatlander_48 View Post
                                Long Beach:

                                I was there in 2001. VERY crowded place. Hard to find a decent place to watch when walking around. Hope to finally go back this year...
                                If I have to visit three US street circuit, Long Beach would be one of my choice. ¿It is so crowded on GP's as you said?

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