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Nascar Buys International Speedway for $2 Billion in Cash

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  • #31
    Originally posted by KevMcNJ View Post

    IT was 25 years ago so maybe Im misremembering,

    but wasn't there no infield GA available for the Brickyard 400 in 1994 just so the Cup race didn't have a larger attendance than Indy was getting?

    IMS had to hold a lottery for tickets and got over 700,000 requests.

    They probably could have sold 500K tickets if IMS suddenly had that many seats available in 1994
    I believe you are correct about no GA for the first BY.

    Comment


    • #32
      Some interesting tidbits on the sale from Jayski. Touches on SEC filings, ISC seating totals, expected revenue drops, Brian France's holdings, etc.
      https://www.jayski.com/2019/07/05/is...nascar-buyout/
      BAN SHREDDED CHEESE! MAKE AMERICA GRATE AGAIN!

      Comment


      • #33
        attendance.jpg

        YIKES. If they sold <18,000 tickets in Kansas for Cup, what hope is there for a series like Indycar at the same track? I get that this doesn't include walk up or the last couple weeks of sale, but stil not good.

        Comment


        • #34
          Plenty to interpret as you please. Specifically for Kansas. Those are March totals and probably represent the season ticket sales, maybe renewals for just May. New orders might not be started yet.

          But for Kansas the season ticket is an extreme value compared to buying individual days or weekends. I didn't renew because of circumstances by their deadline but the renewal price in 2019 was $315 for mid center seats. That includes 2 Cup, 1 Xfinity, 1 Truck race ticket, the pre race access for the Cup races, a preferred parking spot all four days. I found myself able to go in October so I looked at the prices for the same seating area. $139 for Cup, $80 for Xfinity, $75 for the pre race access, $35 for the parking. That adds up to $329 for the October weekend for the same things included in the season ticket which was $315. More for one weekend than 2.

          I see the benefit to rewarding season ticket holders with a reduced price, I certainly appreciatted them for 8-9 years there but man they have to really be counting on those season ticket renewals to bolster attendance because I for one can't stomach paying double the price if only going to one race. I can see how their pricing might have a lot of people just buying a Cup ticket closer the the race date and not any of the other items.

          As for Indycar, I don't think they could have ticket prices low enough to get much of a crowd.
          "You can't arrest those guys, they're folk heroes"
          "They're criminals"
          "Well most folk heroes started out as criminals"

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Lee Roy View Post

            The BY departing will kick a several million dollar crutch from under IMS/IndyCar. We'll see who departs.
            Seeing as that for the past decade, the Brickyard 400 has been operating as more or less a break-even, zero profit event, it's not a crutch they'll desperately miss. They probably haven't turned a major profit on the event since before the tire debacle in 2008. The event used to be a major cash cow in the 1990s, but so was every Cup event.

            The centralized TV package money gives IMS the money they need to pay the sanctioning fee, establish a purse, and cover operating costs. At that point, they basically break even.

            There have been a lot of reasons stated as to why the BY400 has fallen so far. But IMS management isn't anywhere near the top of the list.

            Originally posted by 4 Corner Fan View Post

            I believe you are correct about no GA for the first BY.
            The first several years the BY400 did not have general admission. In fact, much of the infield (except the bleachers inside turn one and the Wheelchair Stand by the museum) were "off-limits" to fans because they determined they were 'not safe'. After Mark Martin busted through two guardrails and a fence at Talladega in May 1994, and nearly ended up in the spectator area, IMS officials decided most of their inside walls and catchfences were not strong enough for stock cars. And it was too late to make those improvements, so they just fenced them off. That was even the case for Thursday and Friday practice and quals. By 1996, they had rebuilt most of the inside walls/catchfences, and at that point re-opened the mounds to fans for Brickyard week.

            On top of that, they claim that they received ticket requests for 3x what they could fulfill. So there was also some fear that if they opened up general admission for race day, it would have been a mad house that made the 2016 500 look like a small gathering.
            Doctorindy.com

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Doctorindy View Post

              Seeing as that for the past decade, the Brickyard 400 has been operating as more or less a break-even, zero profit event, it's not a crutch they'll desperately miss. They probably haven't turned a major profit on the event since before the tire debacle in 2008. The event used to be a major cash cow in the 1990s, but so was every Cup event.

              The centralized TV package money gives IMS the money they need to pay the sanctioning fee, establish a purse, and cover operating costs. At that point, they basically break even.

              There have been a lot of reasons stated as to why the BY400 has fallen so far. But IMS management isn't anywhere near the top of the list.
              Is this something you have information on, or are we just supposed to take your word?

              DVR . . . . Life is too short to watch commercials.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Doctorindy View Post
                The centralized TV package money gives IMS the money they need to pay the sanctioning fee, establish a purse, and cover operating costs. At that point, they basically break even.

                "In a news release to announce the impact of the schedule changes and the new 10-year television deal that goes into effect next season, track operator International Speedway Corp. said the split will remain at 65 percent to the tracks, 25 percent to the teams through the purse and 10 percent to NASCAR."

                https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nasc...z1g83sfupj4dwc

                Not sure where you're getting "and cover operating costs" from, but the track is given the lions share of the TV money up front, and if they can't make a profit with that, then it is the track management that is the problem. Name me another racing series that comes in the door giving the track the 90% of the TV contract money.
                DVR . . . . Life is too short to watch commercials.

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                • #38
                  Article is from 2016, but is applicable as far as reduced profit from BY400 (though I'm not sure this has much to do with NASCAR purchasing ISC...IMS is independently and privately owned).

                  https://www.ibj.com/blogs/4-the-scor...n-for-speedway

                  The story noted that the NASCAR race brought in about $35 million in annual revenue in those days and $25 million or more in profit—yes, profit—for the Speedway. Back then, motorsports business experts said the race brought in more than $20 million in ticket revenue alone and that over the first decade of the race, it netted the Speedway about $300 million in profit.

                  Attendance at the Brickyard 400 has plummeted from more than about 270,000 during its halcyon days to 75,000 in recent years
                  The numbers quoted would indicate a per person ticket revenue of $74.07. At 75K attendance, that'd still be $5,555,555 in ticket revenue.
                  Of course costs go up, but it would seem that the BY400 still generates a goodly profit, though not the 71% margin it used to generate.
                  BAN SHREDDED CHEESE! MAKE AMERICA GRATE AGAIN!

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Doctorindy View Post

                    Seeing as that for the past decade, the Brickyard 400 has been operating as more or less a break-even, zero profit event, it's not a crutch they'll desperately miss. They probably haven't turned a major profit on the event since before the tire debacle in 2008. The event used to be a major cash cow in the 1990s, but so was every Cup event.

                    The centralized TV package money gives IMS the money they need to pay the sanctioning fee, establish a purse, and cover operating costs. At that point, they basically break even.

                    There have been a lot of reasons stated as to why the BY400 has fallen so far. But IMS management isn't anywhere near the top of the list.

                    Robin Miller 100% disagrees with this on a regular basis.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      As a second event, the Brickyard remains delightful extra income. IMS is millions to the good before they sell a ticket or a hot dog. There's no other possible weekend event that could generate that income.

                      Aside from being a better NASCAR track, I don't know what IMS management can do to fix it. I know a longtime Brickyard attender who bought tickets for Kentucky instead of the Brickyard because he went to Kentucky last year and enjoyed the racing much more.

                      ​​​​​
                      Last edited by atrackforumfan; 07-10-2019, 08:26 PM.
                      Racing ain't much, but workin's nothing. Richard Tharp

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Jakester View Post
                        Article is from 2016, but is applicable as far as reduced profit from BY400 (though I'm not sure this has much to do with NASCAR purchasing ISC...IMS is independently and privately owned).

                        https://www.ibj.com/blogs/4-the-scor...n-for-speedway



                        The numbers quoted would indicate a per person ticket revenue of $74.07. At 75K attendance, that'd still be $5,555,555 in ticket revenue.
                        Of course costs go up, but it would seem that the BY400 still generates a goodly profit, though not the 71% margin it used to generate.
                        I always felt that it was the sellout profits from the BY races in the 1990's that contributed to IMS doing the upgrades to the track/pagoda/facilities prior to the F1 races starting in 2000. Now IMS borrows from the State.
                        DVR . . . . Life is too short to watch commercials.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Lee Roy View Post

                          I always felt that it was the sellout profits from the BY races in the 1990's that contributed to IMS doing the upgrades to the track/pagoda/facilities prior to the F1 races starting in 2000. Now IMS borrows from the State.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Back on subject....
                            https://www.news-journalonline.com/news/20190706/iscnascar-merger-detailed-in-securities-documents

                            Deal expected to close 3rd/4th quarter this year.

                            500 pages in filing...


                            BAN SHREDDED CHEESE! MAKE AMERICA GRATE AGAIN!

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Lee Roy View Post


                              "In a news release to announce the impact of the schedule changes and the new 10-year television deal that goes into effect next season, track operator International Speedway Corp. said the split will remain at 65 percent to the tracks, 25 percent to the teams through the purse and 10 percent to NASCAR."

                              https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nasc...z1g83sfupj4dwc

                              Not sure where you're getting "and cover operating costs" from, but the track is given the lions share of the TV money up front, and if they can't make a profit with that, then it is the track management that is the problem. Name me another racing series that comes in the door giving the track the 90% of the TV contract money.

                              IMS CEO look to improve Brickyard 400, track revenue

                              This article adds some insight and actual numbers. A few years old, but recent enough to still be relevant.

                              Hosting a Cup race and a Nationwide/Xfinity weekend gave the track $12 million from the TV package.
                              A Cup race and a Nationwide/Xfinity race weekend carried a $9.5 million sanctioning fee (leaving out the sports car race they no longer host)
                              Operating costs for the weekend vary. Some estimated as 1 to 2 million, perhaps more.
                              At that point they barely break even. Ticket sales, title sponsorship, merchandise/concessions general account for profit.

                              The other thing that is not often mentioned, but they talked about it on one of the Dinner With Racers episodes, was that the NASCAR TV package money is NOT equally divided between the various tracks. It was stressed that Daytona, for instance, gets a much larger chunk of that money than other tracks do.


                              EDIT: It's discussed on the DWR Eddie Gossage episode (about the 1:05 mark). He said there are four track tiers - A, B, C, and the Daytona 500. Each tier gets a different amount of money, with the Daytona 500 he said...

                              "...gets an astronomical amount of money, astronomical amount of money, as...tro...nomical amount of money...umm...astronomical."
                              Last edited by Doctorindy; 07-11-2019, 05:07 PM.
                              Doctorindy.com

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Doctorindy View Post

                                On top of that, they claim that they received ticket requests for 3x what they could fulfill. So there was also some fear that if they opened up general admission for race day, it would have been a mad house that made the 2016 500 look like a small gathering.
                                TG was a fool to not sell GA tickets to the BY until the late 2000's. In the late 90's or early 2000s, they could have sold a set amount and made some money. Some say he didn't want to outdraw the 500.

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