Why flips only at Tally & Daytona

[silva2]

I was think (yes, scary I know) about why is it that stock cars consistantly get upside down at Daytona and Talladega (one each this year) but the same can not be said for the tracks on the circuit that are faster than those two.

Now I know that if you take away the plate that Daytona and Talladega would be by far the fastest tracks. But they run the plates so the speeds there are slower than at Atlanta (Texas? Michigan? California?). A quick check of NASCAR.com leads me to believe that the WC track record at each of those four is higher than the pole speed from Daytona close to Talladega this year.

But there have been no flips (or do I remember one in a BGN race at Michigan) anywhere but at Daytona and Talladega.

Why??

[DavidM]

Well it depends how far back you want to go. David Green got on his head at Bristol as did Rusty. Several drivers have gotten upside down at Pocono, remember Steve Parks crash a couple years ago? Ken Schrader also, and Davey Allisons crash there was very nasty. Very much like a Daytona or Talladega crash. Didn't Johnny Benson take a nasty flip at Michigan in a BGN car.

[dog-ring]

Maybe it's because thay run so close at these tracks or possibly it has to do with the "aero" bodies that are put on the cars to run in a draft. In other words, I don't know

[Doctorindy]

One big difference is that at Daytona and Talladega (banked steeper), they are flat-out all the way around the track. At all the rest, Atlanta, Michigan, etc, they back off and slow down (sometimes brake) for the curves. There's a lot more acceleration during the lap laps there. They may have the same "average" speed, but that's because the speeds range from from 205 on the straight to 160 in the turns. At Daytona/Tally, they go from 191 on the straights to 189 in the turns.


I hear a lot about the aero-affect that the cars get at Daytona/Talladega is much more significant than that of say, Michigan and Atlanta. Since the cars at Day/Tally are pretty much all going the same speed, they pack up in the huge packs, which cause unbelieveable amounts of turbulence. Enough that a little tap here and there make the cars dangerously unstable.

However, at the Michigans, Atlantas, etc, the cars have significant differences in speed, so the cars spread out over the track much quicker, and they don't sustain the 190 all the way around. The constant slow-down-accelerate-slow-down-accelerate keeps the cars apart. Back in the old days, only the bravest of the brave went into turn one at Daytona flat. The rest backed off. Now, as Michael Waltrip said, "an anebriated chimpanzee can qualify at Daytona & Talladega." Because it's almost like an arcade game it's that easy. Only when there's other cars on the track is it bad.

The turbulence caused by the huge packs make those cars toss and fly around. Plus the fact that the cars are sooooo close, that if one checks up, the rest ram into the back of it, and that's enough to send it spinning into the friendly skies. Also the grass on the infield portions of the track. Typically the cars go spinning into the infield, hit a rut in the dirt and grass, and that pivots them into a flip. That's why many tracks are paving the infield portions of the track, and eliminating a lot of the grass areas.


Lots of reason, but mostly because of the sustained speeds, and the higher turbulence.

[silva2]

DavidM,

Yes some of those cars did get upside down but I think that Davey's accident at Pocono was the only one similar to what happens at Daytona and Talladega. I had forgotten that one.

Doctorindy,

Your response is a very good one and I appreciate it. But do you think that an accident similar to Sadlers at Talladega could happen at Atlanta? The spot that it occurred if translated to Atlanta (entrance to turn 3) would yeild a similar speed.

[Doctorindy]

Originally posted by silva2
DavidM,

Yes some of those cars did get upside down but I think that Davey's accident at Pocono was the only one similar to what happens at Daytona and Talladega. I had forgotten that one.

Doctorindy,

Your response is a very good one and I appreciate it. But do you think that an accident similar to Sadlers at Talladega could happen at Atlanta? The spot that it occurred if translated to Atlanta (entrance to turn 3) would yeild a similar speed.

Anything's possible, I bet under the right circumstances, anything could happen. Likely, probably not. I mean it just seems like different types of crashes happen at different types of tracks. I think too that the downforce packages at say, Atlanta vs. plate tracks differ vastly.

[TrackGoddess]

Originally posted by Doctorindy
Now, as Michael Waltrip said, "an anebriated chimpanzee can qualify at Daytona & Talladega."

Yup. Mikey qualifies at those tracks pretty regular.