What Killed NASCAR

[DaveL]

A 3.0L Turbo straight 6 that's NOT built by Toyota.

I believe it's a BMW.

Nothing new though...how many V8 rear wheel drive Taurus (1998-2005), Fusion (2006-2018), Camry, Lumina, Impala (2007-2012), Monte Carlo (1995-2007) did mfg build?

RWD is necessary for oval racing. FWD would create insurmountable balance issues. You can still have modern, relevant engines with rear wheel drive.

[KevMcNJ]

RWD is necessary for oval racing. FWD would create insurmountable balance issues. You can still have modern, relevant engines with rear wheel drive.

Almost all short tracks now run a FWD class since the old Pintos and Mustangs are getting hard to find for the 4 cylinder class.


The class has been around for a little while now so theyre figuring it out but for the most part the cars all have massive understeer issues.


I find it hard to watch them because they handle so poorly

[DaveL]

Almost all short tracks now run a FWD class since the old Pintos and Mustangs are getting hard to find for the 4 cylinder class.


The class has been around for a little while now so theyre figuring it out but for the most part the cars all have massive understeer issues.


I find it hard to watch them because they handle so poorly

And if you ask the drivers of FWD GT cars at Daytona, they'll tell you the high banks are no picnic.

[Jakester]

And if you ask the drivers of FWD GT cars at Daytona, they'll tell you the high banks are no picnic.

I believe the only FWD cars left in IMSA are the TCR cars in the Michelin Pilot Challenge series (as opposed to GTD, GTLM in WeatherTech Sports Car Challenge, and even GS in the Michelin Pilot Challenge)

[Jakester]

RWD is necessary for oval racing. FWD would create insurmountable balance issues. You can still have modern, relevant engines with rear wheel drive.

No doubt. The point is being a long way from 'stock' has been around for a very long time.

At least Mustangs and Camaros do have both V8s and rear wheel drive (rear wheel drive for Supra).

[JThur1]

RWD is necessary for oval racing. FWD would create insurmountable balance issues. You can still have modern, relevant engines with rear wheel drive.

Really? There were FWD cars at Indianapolis for five decades. One year there were a dozen FWD cars in the starting line-up. Granted, it fell out of favor fairly quickly and fewer and fewer tried it, but it was done for quite a few years.

[DaveL]

I believe the only FWD cars left in IMSA are the TCR cars in the Michelin Pilot Challenge series (as opposed to GTD, GTLM in WeatherTech Sports Car Challenge, and even GS in the Michelin Pilot Challenge)

Yeah, because FWD is such a terrible layout for a racing car

[DaveL]

Really? There were FWD cars at Indianapolis for five decades. One year there were a dozen FWD cars in the starting line-up. Granted, it fell out of favor fairly quickly and fewer and fewer tried it, but it was done for quite a few years.

Sure, you can run a FWD car on an oval. But a rear wheel drive car, better yet a mid engine car, will blow you to the weeds.

[JMB]

No doubt. The point is being a long way from 'stock' has been around for a very long time.

At least Mustangs and Camaros do have both V8s and rear wheel drive (rear wheel drive for Supra).

I have been to a couple short tracks that have a division that is pretty stock, front whee drive V-6'S. Not pretty at all. Very slow and poor handling, plus it seems the left rear tire is coming off the ground in the turns for many of the cars. They are even noticeably slower than the rear wheel drive 4 cylinder mini stocks.

[KevMcNJ]

I have been to a couple short tracks that have a division that is pretty stock, front whee drive V-6'S. Not pretty at all. Very slow and poor handling, plus it seems the left rear tire is coming off the ground in the turns for many of the cars. They are even noticeably slower than the rear wheel drive 4 cylinder mini stocks.

Ive seen the raised LR too.

Looks like a good way to barrel roll a bomber car

[Cornys]

Sure, you can run a FWD car on an oval. But a rear wheel drive car, better yet a mid engine car, will blow you to the weeds.

The tire compound on the right front tire would have to be terribly heat and wear resistant to race it on an oval for a long period of time. Basically like a rock. All the weight on the front of the car, and steering, and drive.

[Jakester]

Really? There were FWD cars at Indianapolis for five decades. One year there were a dozen FWD cars in the starting line-up. Granted, it fell out of favor fairly quickly and fewer and fewer tried it, but it was done for quite a few years.

Different era...lower speeds (130 mph or so)...lower power.

[Belanger99]

Almost all short tracks now run a FWD class since the old Pintos and Mustangs are getting hard to find for the 4 cylinder class.


The class has been around for a little while now so theyre figuring it out but for the most part the cars all have massive understeer issues.


I find it hard to watch them because they handle so poorly

Exactly. They push all the time and the faster they go the more they push, because of the RF drive wheel.

We "banned" them at our local dirt track-decent car counts, but they tore up the track so bad it wasn't worth it. Most of the drivers converted to another class anyway.

[JThur1]

Different era...lower speeds (130 mph or so)...lower power.

While the 4-lap record for a FWD car at IMS is something like 139mph, the single lap record is significantly higher.

The whole thing was aimed at DaveL's seeming dismissal of FWD from oval racing in total, even historically. That, and his follow up seems to indicate he wasn't aware of FWD history in oval racing.

Now? Sure, not arguing that it applies for contemporary racing. But, it happened and they did rather well in the '500' against RWD cars. Blew them into the weeds

[indyrjc]

..... the single lap record is significantly higher.

T

Held by Bob Mathouser in Mickey Thompson's 1965 front wheel drive car at (off the top of my head) 151+ MPH. He got in two qualifying laps on the last weekend of Time Trials that might have made the show but blew the engine before the checkered flag.