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What Killed NASCAR

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  • What Killed NASCAR

    Stumbled across this video today. Thoughts?

    https://youtu.be/gkaXjaXyod4
    "If you don't do it this year, you'll be another year older when you do"

    http://davidm.smugmug.com/

  • #2
    Nice to see that the guy finally figured it out.

    Comment


    • #3
      Noticed it was done by someone involved in the video game industry and stopped watching immediately. Those guys are really bad news.

      Comment


      • #4
        One point in the video I agree with is is that the business model is broken.

        Enough people are still making piles of money right now so they don't have to change the model. Yet.

        There will still be money to be made by having stock appearing cars going in circles in 2025 and 2035.

        There will be less money than there was in 2019 or 2009 or 1999.

        But there will be money to be made so there will be a NASCAR.

        NASCAR hasn't been killed. Severely wounded? Perhaps.

        And like when a person is severely wounded they eventually recover although they may not be as strong in some ways as they were "before"

        Someone can pull this thread up in 2035 and tell me I am wrong but I bet by then at least one track currently on the Cup schedule will have been repurposed into houses, shopping centers or an industrial park.

        Maybe more than one.
        Live like Dave

        Comment


        • #5
          The constant tinkering, the constant trying to fix what wasn’t broken it usually stems from short sighted greed or a quest for control or a combo of both. It’s what happens when you put a middle management minded person incharge of everything.

          You could almost lay it over the downfall of Indycar/champ car racing as it’s pretty much the same formula. While sure there is no split to contend with you still have questionable management making decisions they shouldn’t make for nothing more than what appears to be the sake of change. Add to that a mass retirement of the fan favorite old guard and all that adds up to a loss of casual fan interest. Things like the chase and stage racing are odd and confusing and turning people off.
          Last edited by Andretti91; 02-17-2019, 03:28 PM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Andretti91 View Post
            middle management minded person incharge of everything.
            You spelled simple minded wrong
            Live like Dave

            Comment


            • #7
              I think the whole red flag after red flag thing to finish races has been a contributor. It's truly comical that NASCAR races can often take 60-90 minutes to complete the final 10-20 laps. It happens way too often.

              Atlanta is showing strong signs of not all race tickets being put up for sale. Has that pattern of one row completely available, next row completely unavailable, next row completely available, and so on. Then areas where there are really no seats available at all. A venues way of spreading people out to fill gaps. Decent attended events show patterns of everything at the top and closest to aisles being unavailable, while available tickets are scattered in the middle and low down.

              If Atlanta or some of the early season new "plate style" races ends with a parking lot full of wrecked cars and lengthy delays, I think the bleeding accelerates even more.

              Comment


              • #8
                Nascar isn't going to die any time soon.

                Other than that the video got a lot of things right. I'm reminded of the sign on AJ Watson's desk that reads Big Time Racing Sucks. It does. I also wonder if Nascar proved H.L. Mencken wrong when he was paraphrased as saying "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public". I think Nascar dumbed things down so much that they ran off their fan base. I would love to see them concentrate their efforts to bring back that base by returning to stock cars (as much as they safely can) and restoring traditional tracks and dates.
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                • #9
                  Dragging out the races even longer with GWC finishes and overtime while other sports are trying to speed up the game to keep the public's attention and you can see why NASCAR has a hard time with ratings.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by KevMcNJ View Post
                    One point in the video I agree with is is that the business model is broken.

                    Enough people are still making piles of money right now so they don't have to change the model. Yet.

                    There will still be money to be made by having stock appearing cars going in circles in 2025 and 2035.

                    There will be less money than there was in 2019 or 2009 or 1999.

                    But there will be money to be made so there will be a NASCAR.

                    NASCAR hasn't been killed. Severely wounded? Perhaps.

                    And like when a person is severely wounded they eventually recover although they may not be as strong in some ways as they were "before"

                    Someone can pull this thread up in 2035 and tell me I am wrong but I bet by then at least one track currently on the Cup schedule will have been repurposed into houses, shopping centers or an industrial park.

                    Maybe more than one.
                    Money on TMS being one of them if NASCAR keeps going down. DFW is expanding fast out that direction and that land is going to be worth a lot more than it already is in a few years.

                    Note this isn't any sort of insider info; purely speculation and I do not want to see it happen. I also have no idea what the economics of tearing it down and re-purposing it would look like, but I have to think it would be worth it to somebody. Hopefully I'm wrong and they're in good enough shape to stick around for a long time either way.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      NASCAR just needs a major re-think at this point.

                      It needs to be progressive enough (and being "progressive" with the NASCAR crowd is a laughable term, I know) to understand the realities of the sporting world 2020. But also traditional enough to understand how it got to be as popular as it did and why the niche it had existed in the first place.

                      Most of these "changes" they have thrown up against the wall have been failures. Nobody cares about stage racing. The reason why you seemingly need "stage racing" in the first place is because your races are too damn long. At this point, there should be 2 races on the schedule over 500 miles. Daytona 500 and Coke Or Whatever The Hell Its Called Now 600. We don't need 500 laps at Bristol. We don't need 400 miles at Atlanta or Fontana or Michigan or anywhere else. The race today (which would be the exception on the schedule) had a 1:00 pre-race (I guess, I didn't watch any of it) on FOX. 3:00 green flag. Didn't end until 7:30. Who in their right mind wants to watch anything for 6 1/2 hours? Without a rain delay too.

                      Shorten almost all the races down. Start the races earlier and get em over with earlier. The GWC thing is debatable. I can see what they were going with there. Ending a race on a yellow flag is a complete let-down. I say keep that but you only get one shot at it.

                      Shorten the damn schedule down too. You start the NASCAR season at Valentine's Day and end it on Thanksgiving? Wayyyyy too long a season to keep anyone's attention. And at this point, wayy too expensive for teams and sponsors. Cut out 2nd Cup dates at about 7 or 8 tracks. Pick out 7 or 8 (and I think most of us will pick about the same 7 or 8) and get the schedule down to about 28 races. Get the season over by the middle of October at the very latest.

                      Get rid of the 1970s technology and get into the 21st century. Again that's more of a progressive thing that many of our conservative breatheren have trouble coming to grips with. And bring the "stock" back to stock car racing. That's been something that has run off a lot of fans right there. Probably more then we even think.

                      The charters are a joke and should be eliminated yesterday. That's a Russian-style model that again, has no place and eliminates growth. They have "worked" just as many of us thought they would. Which is to say, they haven't.

                      The racing at Daytona and Talladega needs to change. How you go about that, is I'm sure can be debated. But how many millions of dollars were flushed down the toilet in the past week at Daytona on crash damage alone? Instead of 8 and 12 and 18 car pile-ups, we somehow figure out a way to have more 1 and 2 car crashes instead? Where you are allowed to run, I don't know, 210 MPH laps? People will say, "you can't let them go too fast". But I say what's more dangerous? Cars piling into each other 2-3 times per stock car race at Daytona (between the Clash, ARCA, Trucks, Nationwide and Nextel Cup) or cars being able to space themselves a bit and not being all over one another because they aren't allowed to get away from one another? If the cars are so safe now and the walls are so safe now and you've done all of these things for safety, then why continue to wad up multiple cars over and over and over again with this antiquated racing package? Drivers like Paul Menard and Ricky Stenhouse and Jimmie Johnson and Clint Bowyer won't (or its very unlikely) they will make the kinds of mistakes we saw them make today which tore up all of those race cars if they aren't forced into a style of racing that current plate racing demands. Most Cup drivers are talented enough race drivers that they can handle their business (and take care of their fellow drivers) if they aren't on top of one another. There's gotta be a happy median somewhere between completely turning them loose at Daytona and keeping them restricted down to 190 MPH and driving a car that I think a trained monkey could drive in qualifying and not spin it.

                      Nobody won the Daytona 500 today. It will say Denny Hamlin won in the record book. But all that was survival. 3 cars out of 40 weren't involved in a wreck. The top 2 cars were 2 of those 3. Yippee.

                      And its past time that bodies like NASCAR, Indy Car, Sports Cars, etc start to work together much more. They need to work together more to make sure all of them stay viable and healthy into the future. A high tide lifts all boats (or something to that effect). Racing as a sport needs to realize that we are all in this together to make sure racing as a sport has a future in this country. NASCAR is not and should not be Indy Car's enemy. And vice versa. The folly of some Indy Car fandom is to think if NASCAR falls of the map that it helps Indy Car. Wrong. Not when, even in a weakened state, that NASCAR is still the king of American racing. The stronger all American racing series are, the better it is for American racing in general.

                      NASCAR isn't dead and won't die. Its just now in a period where it needs to re-organize, learn from the mistakes they've made and understand what needs to be done to stop the bleeding. A bit of a downsizing or right-sizing is needed and likely will have to happen. Maybe Michael Waltrip type drivers won't be able to become zillionaires by running 25th every week. But you can still have a viable racing product without that.
                      Last edited by CrankShaft; 02-18-2019, 01:19 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by CrankShaft View Post
                        NASCAR just needs a major re-think at this point.

                        It needs to be progressive enough (and being "progressive" with the NASCAR crowd is a laughable term, I know) to understand the realities of the sporting world 2020. But also traditional enough to understand how it got to be as popular as it did and why the niche it had existed in the first place.

                        Most of these "changes" they have thrown up against the wall have been failures. Nobody cares about stage racing. The reason why you seemingly need "stage racing" in the first place is because your races are too damn long. At this point, there should be 2 races on the schedule over 500 miles. Daytona 500 and Coke Or Whatever The Hell Its Called Now 600. We don't need 500 laps at Bristol. We don't need 400 miles at Atlanta or Fontana or Michigan or anywhere else. The race today (which would be the exception on the schedule) had a 1:00 pre-race (I guess, I didn't watch any of it) on FOX. 3:00 green flag. Didn't end until 7:30. Who in their right mind wants to watch anything for 6 1/2 hours? Without a rain delay too.

                        Shorten almost all the races down. Start the races earlier and get em over with earlier. The GWC thing is debatable. I can see what they were going with there. Ending a race on a yellow flag is a complete let-down. I say keep that but you only get one shot at it.

                        Shorten the damn schedule down too. You start the NASCAR season at Valentine's Day and end it on Thanksgiving? Wayyyyy too long a season to keep anyone's attention. And at this point, wayy too expensive for teams and sponsors. Cut out 2nd Cup dates at about 7 or 8 tracks. Pick out 7 or 8 (and I think most of us will pick about the same 7 or 8) and get the schedule down to about 28 races. Get the season over by the middle of October at the very latest.

                        Get rid of the 1970s technology and get into the 21st century. Again that's more of a progressive thing that many of our conservative breatheren have trouble coming to grips with. And bring the "stock" back to stock car racing. That's been something that has run off a lot of fans right there. Probably more then we even think.

                        The charters are a joke and should be eliminated yesterday. That's a Russian-style model that again, has no place and eliminates growth. They have "worked" just as many of us thought they would. Which is to say, they haven't.

                        The racing at Daytona and Talladega needs to change. How you go about that, is I'm sure can be debated. But how many millions of dollars were flushed down the toilet in the past week at Daytona on crash damage alone? Instead of 8 and 12 and 18 car pile-ups, we somehow figure out a way to have more 1 and 2 car crashes instead? Where you are allowed to run, I don't know, 210 MPH laps? People will say, "you can't let them go too fast". But I say what's more dangerous? Cars piling into each other 2-3 times per stock car race at Daytona (between the Clash, ARCA, Trucks, Nationwide and Nextel Cup) or cars being able to space themselves a bit and not being all over one another because they aren't allowed to get away from one another? If the cars are so safe now and the walls are so safe now and you've done all of these things for safety, then why continue to wad up multiple cars over and over and over again with this antiquated racing package? Drivers like Paul Menard and Ricky Stenhouse and Jimmie Johnson and Clint Bowyer won't (or its very unlikely) they will make the kinds of mistakes we saw them make today which tore up all of those race cars if they aren't forced into a style of racing that current plate racing demands. Most Cup drivers are talented enough race drivers that they can handle their business (and take care of their fellow drivers) if they aren't on top of one another. There's gotta be a happy median somewhere between completely turning them loose at Daytona and keeping them restricted down to 190 MPH and driving a car that I think a trained monkey could drive in qualifying and not spin it.

                        Nobody won the Daytona 500 today. It will say Denny Hamlin won in the record book. But all that was survival. 3 cars out of 40 weren't involved in a wreck. The top 2 cars were 2 of those 3. Yippee.

                        And its past time that bodies like NASCAR, Indy Car, Sports Cars, etc start to work together much more. They need to work together more to make sure all of them stay viable and healthy into the future. A high tide lifts all boats (or something to that effect). Racing as a sport needs to realize that we are all in this together to make sure racing as a sport has a future in this country. NASCAR is not and should not be Indy Car's enemy. And vice versa. The folly of some Indy Car fandom is to think if NASCAR falls of the map that it helps Indy Car. Wrong. Not when, even in a weakened state, that NASCAR is still the king of American racing. The stronger all American racing series are, the better it is for American racing in general.

                        NASCAR isn't dead and won't die. Its just now in a period where it needs to re-organize, learn from the mistakes they've made and understand what needs to be done to stop the bleeding. A bit of a downsizing or right-sizing is needed and likely will have to happen. Maybe Michael Waltrip type drivers won't be able to become zillionaires by running 25th every week. But you can still have a viable racing product without that.
                        Yep.
                        The Ayn Rand of Indycar

                        No one had to badge the Offy.

                        Crapping all over threads since 2000.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by jkeener24 View Post
                          Money on TMS being one of them if NASCAR keeps going down. DFW is expanding fast out that direction and that land is going to be worth a lot more than it already is in a few years.

                          Note this isn't any sort of insider info; purely speculation and I do not want to see it happen. I also have no idea what the economics of tearing it down and re-purposing it would look like, but I have to think it would be worth it to somebody. Hopefully I'm wrong and they're in good enough shape to stick around for a long time either way.
                          I wasn't thinking of Texas and I have no inside knowledge on Texas real estate but thanks for playing along.

                          I was thinking Fontana right off the top of my head.

                          Go ahead and toss Atlanta onto the Maybe Pile.

                          Atlanta is exploding in every direction and Im not sure how long a race track that has one (poorly attended) big race per

                          calendar year can continue to exist while sitting on land that is probably getting more valuable every month.

                          We went there about 10 years ago and the track was sitting in suburbia then.

                          Pure speculation on my part as well.

                          But it wouldn't be the worlds biggest tragedy if a cookie cutter track or two went away permanently.

                          And the pity is that Atlanta at one time was a unique oval unlike every other track on the schedule.

                          And then during Peak Hubris someone who makes a lot more money than anyone here decided Atlanta needed to look just

                          like every track that was being built at the time.
                          Live like Dave

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I don't see how taking an hour to run 10 laps will win over new fans or bring old ones back.
                            The Ayn Rand of Indycar

                            No one had to badge the Offy.

                            Crapping all over threads since 2000.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by davel View Post
                              i don't see how taking an hour to run 10 laps will win over new fans or bring old ones back.
                              THIS!

                              These stoppages aren't like a rain delay in a World Series or a long injury time out in a Super Bowl.

                              Those things are completely unavoidable.

                              They are saying we don't care how long everyone has to sit and twiddle their thumbs.

                              We are going to try and shoehorn in an exciting finish no matter how boring it gets.

                              Sometimes a Super Bowl ends with a TD in overtime and sometimes it ends with the QB taking a knee three times to kill the final minute on the clock.

                              Its just how sports work.
                              Live like Dave

                              Comment

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