Asphalt and paving

[Z28]

NASCAR drivers raging over recent repaves



http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nascar-...6--nascar.html


This has been going on for a long time, Kansas and Chicagoland were one groove tracks for several years when built. NASCAR seems to not want to look for a solution while using the same old tired ones. Different types of asphalt would be one thing to look into. The second would be diamond grinding the old surface like Indianapolis Motor Speedway has done.

Another thing NASCAR fell in love with was the variable banking. It really hasn't proved effective at very many places. To me because since everybody has the same chassis and engines they all set their cars up the same way and run the same lines. The other thing that doesn't help is ISC and SMI built so many 1.5 mile tracks they all behave the same. And they were all built with higher banking than was needed because it was thought the cars of 1997-2000 needed it. Well now you've got far different cars.

What happened at Kansas is a bigger example of how shortsighted NASCAR is. Several teams had a tire test there weeks before the race. Then after that Goodyear announces they have this multi-compound tire they are going to bring for the race. Well that's not what they tested so that test was a waste of time and all the teams had to figure out the new tire on Thursday.


But NASCAR will never admit they don't have the best answers.

If you can go back and find some tapes of the Milwaukee Mile. Granted it's a flat track After they repaved it the CWTS and NNW tore up the inside groove in the turns on both ends. Well Carl Haas managed to find asphalt to use in those low groves that didn't tear up and is in place to this day. It wouldn't be that tough for NASCAR to find out what he did would it?'

[lkchris]

I think I remember reading at the time Texas Motor Speedway came on line that the dual banking was specifically constructed so both NASCAR and Indycar could run there.

For sure there's no Hermann Tilke of ovals.

As for "short sighted," I'd put that on tire companies rather than NASCAR and remind of problems both Michelin and Goodyear have had at IMS. Lots more folks blame Pirelli rather than F1, too.

The ambient temperature for the Kansas race was unexpected. Some teams/drivers adapted better than others. And perhaps mostly those that didn't more than anyone else considered it a fiasco. Pretty easy to think it unexpectedly interesting instead.

[irloyal]

Hey, at least they run on racetracks designed for the cars, not some parking lot somewhere.......

[Jakester]

parking lots are designed for cars

[irloyal]

parking lots are designed for cars

You Betcha! They are great for cars shows

[Stick500]

I think I remember reading at the time Texas Motor Speedway came on line that the dual banking was specifically constructed so both NASCAR and Indycar could run there.

There was talk of doing that during the construction of some of the new tracks, but IIRC it would have been two different racetracks within one, where Indy cars could only run the low groove (they were talking about putting some sort of markers on the track so they wouldn't cheat and use the higher banked sections that NASCAR would use). But nothing like that was ever built.

If I have it correct, all the tracks that now feature "dual-banking" are based on the IRP short track which had much success with very competitive racing (with all types of cars) on their corners that have what came to be called dual banking.

[Todd Gack]

Hey, at least they run on racetracks designed for the cars, not some parking lot somewhere.......

Race tracks built for real race cars actually want NASCAR to race at their facilities.

[Red Byrd]

There was talk of doing that during the construction of some of the new tracks, but IIRC it would have been two different racetracks within one, where Indy cars could only run the low groove (they were talking about putting some sort of markers on the track so they wouldn't cheat and use the higher banked sections that NASCAR would use). But nothing like that was ever built.

If I have it correct, all the tracks that now feature "dual-banking" are based on the IRP short track which had much success with very competitive racing (with all types of cars) on their corners that have what came to be called dual banking.

Having watched the races from Texas in 1997, I cannot visually tell where the dual bank actually is, or the difference between the original and the repave, either.

[Jakester]

TMS did have dual banking when it was first built. But nobody was able to figure out how to build a sufficient temporary retaining wall to keep cars on just the low banking, and crossing the transition from low to high generally sent the car out of control. From high to low wasn't quite as big a problem for the stock cars, but it did cause a couple of incidents. The orginal low bankiing was turned into a much larger flat area in the turns so it's not very visible.

Some of the current repaves were done with 'variable banking' versus TMS's dual banking.

[Stick500]

TMS did have dual banking when it was first built. But nobody was able to figure out how to build a sufficient temporary retaining wall to keep cars on just the low banking, and crossing the transition from low to high generally sent the car out of control. From high to low wasn't quite as big a problem for the stock cars, but it did cause a couple of incidents. The orginal low bankiing was turned into a much larger flat area in the turns so it's not very visible.

Even though I've never been to TMS, what I recall about the original track is that the main problem was the transition from the banking in the turns to the flat straights was too abrupt. I don't recall it being a dual-banking problem, but I guess I could be wrong.

[JimInSoCalif]

parking lots are designed for cars

How come we drive on parking lots and park on driveways?

[lkchris]

The first Cup races at TMS were fairly disastrous as there were lots of crashes, including IIRC lap 1/turn 1. #3 wrong way back to the pits to retire. Dick Trickle crashed in qualifying. Ricky Craven seriously in practice. Greg Sachs career ending. IRL did better I think.