The Top 35 Reconsidered

[DaveL]

After giving it some thought, locking in the Top 35 has done far more harm than good for NASCAR.

New blood has always been lifeline of any sport, NASCAR is no exception. Through the years, old teams have gone and they were replaced by new teams. NASCAR had vitality because start up teams could run selected races and build themselves into regular full time teams. And they were able to compete at selected races because qualifying was open to all-particularly at Daytona. These new teams often brought new drivers who became part of the next generation of stars. I ask not necessarily rhetorically, could the Elliottt Brothers to give just one example, have done what they did if the top 35 were locked in when they were trying to break into the sport?

Locking in the top 35, rather than attract new teams and the vitality they bring, has instead caused a calcification. Since the implementation of the rule, with the exception of Waltrip's team, we haven't seen a single new significant start up team come to NASCAR. Instead we've seen contraction. While it can be argued that new teams can still try, in reality it is awfully hard to sell a full season sponsorship when you have to tell the sponsor that the team is only going for one of 7 open spots on the grid (the 8th spot inevitably taken by the Past Champion) for the first four races and any DNQ will pretty much assure that the team will out of the top 35.

Locking in also locks out. And NASCAR is locking out the potential new blood that has been the key to its vitality for decades.

Just my $.02.

[crsfulk]

After giving it some thought, locking in the Top 35 has done far more harm than good for NASCAR.

New blood has always been lifeline of any sport, NASCAR is no exception. Through the years, old teams have gone and they were replaced by new teams. NASCAR had vitality because start up teams could run selected races and build themselves into regular full time teams. And they were able to compete at selected races because qualifying was open to all-particularly at Daytona. These new teams often brought new drivers who became part of the next generation of stars. I ask not necessarily rhetorically, could the Elliottt Brothers to give just one example, have done what they did if the top 35 were locked in when they were trying to break into the sport?

Locking in the top 35, rather than attract new teams and the vitality they bring, has instead caused a calcification. Since the implementation of the rule, with the exception of Waltrip's team, we haven't seen a single new significant start up team come to NASCAR. Instead we've seen contraction. While it can be argued that new teams can still try, in reality it is awfully hard to sell a full season sponsorship when you have to tell the sponsor that the team is only going for one of 7 open spots on the grid (the 8th spot inevitably taken by the Past Champion) for the first four races and any DNQ will pretty much assure that the team will out of the top 35.

Locking in also locks out. And NASCAR is locking out the potential new blood that has been the key to its vitality for decades.

Just my $.02.

Nicely put, Dave.

[jabba19]

The provisional system they used for years seemed to work fine in protecting the top teams. I can only remember a few times when top teams missed a race, the famed Yates 28 missed the Coke 600 in 1998 or 1999 with Kenny Irwin because they were 28th or something like that in points at the time.

[KevMcNJ]

I can remember when some local hot dog would pick up a ride for the nearest Winston Cup race and often made the show.
Kenny Brightbill has a few Cup races under his belt at Pocono. New Jersey asphalt mod driver Jerry Cranmer ran here and there when the Cup was at Dover or Pocono
. I can even remember a sportsman driver that used to race every Saturday at Flemington getting to race on Sunday because the fastest 42 were allowed to race on Sunday. I think his name as Gene Coyle?

You knew they werent gonna finsih anywhere near the front but it was still cool to see some guy from your regualr Satruday night track racing with Earnhardt, Wallace, Allison etc

Some guy named Rich Vogler even qualified for a Cup race

Probably cant happen these days

[DaveL]

Some guy named Rich Vogler even qualified for a Cup race

The records actually show a DNQ, but that does not diminish your point. Stan Fox, who ran 2 Cup races in 1990, makes your point just the same.

[roach]

...Some guy named Rich Vogler even qualified for a Cup race...

Sadly, he never got to start it.

[Doctorindy]

That was the day he was fatally injured. He was withdrawn, and apparently some box scores list it simply as DNQ. However, I'm quite sure Vogler made the field on speed.

[DaveL]

That was the day he was fatally injured. He was withdrawn, and apparently some box scores list it simply as DNQ. However, I'm quite sure Vogler made the field on speed.

Fair enough. I was unaware.

[roach]

As a tribute, NASCAR left his starting position vacant on the pace laps.

[DaveL]

We can no doubt fill many pages full of stories of things that the top 35 rule will no longer allow. We can also present very real hypotheticals. All these serve to do is reinforce the point.

It is legitimate to speculate if the fact that save for a couple of start and parks, the field is exactly the same each and every week is hurting ratings and attendance a bit. "Predictable" may very well be another word for "Boring".

[roach]

That was the day he was fatally injured. He was withdrawn, and apparently some box scores list it simply as DNQ. However, I'm quite sure Vogler made the field on speed.

Ironically, Vogler was scheduled to make his NASCAR Winston Cup debut the day following his death. He qualified 32nd for the ACDelco 500 at Pocono Raceway before flying to Indiana.

National Speed Sport News

[atrackforumfan]

If it were up to me, I'd essentially invert the 35/8, similar to the old provisionals. Take the top 35 speeds, then the top 8 in points, or whatever similar split suits you. Don't even call the last 8 provisionals; they've earned their places on proven performance instead of one lap.

Anyone who isn't in the show under that system won't be missed.

The only problem with qualifying all spots on time without any back door is that it essentially requires two rounds of qualifying, which is a bore and a waste of time for everyone.

I don't think the modern system is keeping anyone from trying to qualify who wants to, tho. The bigger obstacle is the lack of testing, and the generally excellent drivers who are already in the top cars. There are only a few lame deer at the back of the field that a young lion would even have a chance to take down.

[atrackforumfan]

After giving it some thought, locking in the Top 35 has done far more harm than good for NASCAR.

New blood has always been lifeline of any sport, NASCAR is no exception. Through the years, old teams have gone and they were replaced by new teams. NASCAR had vitality because start up teams could run selected races and build themselves into regular full time teams. And they were able to compete at selected races because qualifying was open to all-particularly at Daytona. These new teams often brought new drivers who became part of the next generation of stars. I ask not necessarily rhetorically, could the Elliottt Brothers to give just one example, have done what they did if the top 35 were locked in when they were trying to break into the sport?

Locking in the top 35, rather than attract new teams and the vitality they bring, has instead caused a calcification. Since the implementation of the rule, with the exception of Waltrip's team, we haven't seen a single new significant start up team come to NASCAR. Instead we've seen contraction. While it can be argued that new teams can still try, in reality it is awfully hard to sell a full season sponsorship when you have to tell the sponsor that the team is only going for one of 7 open spots on the grid (the 8th spot inevitably taken by the Past Champion) for the first four races and any DNQ will pretty much assure that the team will out of the top 35.

Locking in also locks out. And NASCAR is locking out the potential new blood that has been the key to its vitality for decades.

Stars are the lifeline of a sport, not continuous turnover. There are only two good stories in sports:

"Goliath Wins!"

"Goliath Loses!"

If you have a full-time sponsor, you can buy a top 35 spot at the start of the year for your exciting new team. Heck, you can buy a share of a team, like Tony Stewart did, or a seat with a first class team, like Paul Menard.

We haven't seen a significant new startup because there are more proven teams than there are sponsors.

I'm amazed that there are 30 sponsors who want to be on Cup cars.

[jonesi]

The lack of new regular full time teams the last 3 or 4 years is because of the economy, not Top 35. At most races there are 10-12 cars going for the 8 spots. Half of them are start&park entries that really don't qualify well, so they really aren't keeping any young hot shoe out. And if there is eager competent crew that can bolt together a reliable 30th place car, they are going to make 3/4 of the races and move into the Top 35 in a few races.

[hdolan]

"I'm amazed that there are 30 sponsors who want to be on Cup cars. "

I think I agree with you...