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  • White, Toyota in full whine, via USA TODAY...

    USA TODAY link.

    Toyota, once a whistle-blower in CART when they were getting beat, is at it again. There is a quote on Jayski, but the real story is here in USA TODAY link, and on their racing page in Friday's paper. Lee White charges that the Edwards team and Roush Racing did it intentionally and benefited by increased downforce. Later today Jack Roush will demonstrate how the cover could have come off at the track. From the USA TODAY:
    The general manager of Toyota's Sprint Cup program said Carl Edwards' team knowingly caused a lid to come loose on an oil tank in his Ford because it increased the car's speed during Sunday's victory at Las Vegas Motor Speedway.
    Edwards was penalized 100 points by NASCAR for the missing cover.

    Roush Fenway Racing has denied the infraction was intentional, saying a bolt broke because of a vibration. The team said it wasn't certain it achieved a gain in performance. Lee White, GM for Toyota Racing Development, said the manufacturer's testing at wind tunnels in Germany revealed removing the cover on the oil tank (located in a steel box behind the driver's seat) resulted in 170 extra pounds of downforce, the aerodynamic measurement of keeping a car glued to the track.

    White also said video of a pit stop showed a member of Edwards' pit crew pulling on a right rear fender to open a 3-inch gap to an inner panel. Toyota testing showed that would create about 70 pounds of downforce, White said. NASCAR said the only issue with the car during inspection was the lid.

    White said Edwards, who has won the last two Cup races, "was eating cars getting onto the straightaways anywhere he wanted to go" because of the extra 240 pounds of downforce, a roughly 20% increase to the 1,200 pounds of downforce typically generated by a Cup car.

    "If you have 21% more downforce, that's like having 50 (extra) horsepower," White said. "There's absolutely something going on there where someone knew what they were doing.

    "I must applaud NASCAR. Given the safety implications of opening that oil tank to the driver, the penalty could have been more severe."

    White was skeptical of a bolt failure. "I guarantee you the cover bolts didn't fall out, because if they fall, the engine leaks and you can't run," he said. "If you want something to fall off, you fix it so it can."

    Removing the oil tank cover would help improve downforce by changing the airflow around the car."
    "Fox analyst Larry McReynolds, a Cup crew chief from 1985 to 2000, said teams have worked to enhance airflow for years. "Because if there's a half of a 10th of a second to be gained, you'll do it," he said.

    But McReynolds added, "Nobody knows if Bob Osborne (Edwards' crew chief who was suspended for six races) did it intentionally.

    "I hate it for the team and the sport," McReynolds said. "As much as people believe differently, NASCAR doesn't enjoy this. There's always the question of whether it's intentional, and NASCAR can't get into that.

    "If you put the cover on the last part of the race, does Carl Edwards still win? I tend to believe yeah."
    I just have to wonder, the highest finishing Toyota was 9th, does White think the other 7 teams were cheating too?

    Also interesting to note that Toyota does what appears to be full-car wind tunnel testing in Europe, when there are several facilities in the US and Canada. Must be an F1 facility. If they are going to that extreme, I wonder just how much money Toyota is spending to win in Cup.
    It's always been about the Indy 500!
    I realize I have the right to remain silent, but don't have the ability or enough common sense to do so.:rolleyes:

  • #2
    Don't know why Toyota is so whinny. They're only in their second year. What did they expect, to win the cup or something?

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    • #3
      Originally posted by athletics68
      They're only in their second year. What did they expect, to win the cup or something?
      Toyota is leading the points right now.
      IRL 2009: "Cars you can't see, driven by drivers you have never heard of, on a network you don't get"

      "I'd hire your grandmother, if she brought a budget"- Bankrupt Indy Car team owner Tyler Tadevic, to Curt Cavin in December, on the tough standards he looks for when "hiring" driver talent.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by athletics68
        Don't know why Toyota is so whinny. They're only in their second year. What did they expect, to win the cup or something?
        I think they would like to win one Cup race anyway for all that money, and they will, but with Gibbs only, none of the other teams can win. Toyota can out-spend and dominate in NWS and Trucks because the other manufacturers won't try as hard to stop them, it is in Cup where they make it tough.
        It's always been about the Indy 500!
        I realize I have the right to remain silent, but don't have the ability or enough common sense to do so.:rolleyes:

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        • #5
          "The decision to build a second windtunnel stems from our desire to become a World Championship-winning F1 team," says Yoshiaki Kinoshita, the general manager of the Motor Sport Division of the Toyota Motor Corporation, "but we will not be the only beneficiaries of this new facility. Toyota has three motorsport poles around the world with Higashifuji in Japan, Toyota Racing Development in the US and Toyota Motorsport in Germany. These three poles actively co-operate and share know-how, technology and expertise. Accordingly, the new windtunnel in Cologne will also double-up as an aerodynamic research centre for other Toyota motorsport activities around the world."

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          • #6
            The team says 'a bolt' broke. I read elsewhere that the part in question is fastened with numerous bolts.
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            • #7
              Originally posted by MichaelP
              The team says 'a bolt' broke. I read elsewhere that the part in question is fastened with numerous bolts.
              They all just happened to break at once. It was a bad lot of bolts...
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              • #8
                Now they say it was caused by "vibrational harmonics." The off-track stuff in NASCAR is priceless - almost approaching F1 standards.
                "You make one **** of a caucasian Jackie." The Dude Lebowski

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Danny Noonan
                  Now they say it was caused by "vibrational harmonics."
                  I get that just before I head to the john.
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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Danny Noonan
                    Now they say it was caused by "vibrational harmonics." The off-track stuff in NASCAR is priceless - almost approaching F1 standards.
                    You act like this is new to NASCAR. Cheating has been part of NASCAR since the good ole days. It's still accepted as part of the sport in some circles even if NASCAR officially doesn't tolerate it. But this is nowhere near spygate in F1. Edwards team would have had to go to Toyota and steal an engine design or something like that to even come close.

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                    • #11
                      Removing the oil tank cover would help improve downforce by changing the airflow around the car."
                      "Fox analyst Larry McReynolds, a Cup crew chief from 1985 to 2000, said teams have worked to enhance airflow for years. "Because if there's a half of a 10th of a second to be gained, you'll do it," he said.

                      But McReynolds added, "Nobody knows if Bob Osborne (Edwards' crew chief who was suspended for six races) did it intentionally.

                      "I hate it for the team and the sport," McReynolds said. "As much as people believe differently, NASCAR doesn't enjoy this. There's always the question of whether it's intentional, and NASCAR can't get into that.

                      "If you put the cover on the last part of the race, does Carl Edwards still win? I tend to believe yeah."
                      I hate that Larry McReynolds is such a corn-pone shill. I hate that he won't admit what everyone knows, that the only way this cover came off was if it was deliberate because it helps the car. And I hate that he ignores the fact that this exact same violation occurred in the NW race the day before. He might could oughta investigate the story a bit and tell all of it.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Mack Too
                        I think they would like to win one Cup race anyway for all that money, and they will, but with Gibbs only, none of the other teams can win. Toyota can out-spend and dominate in NWS and Trucks because the other manufacturers won't try as hard to stop them, it is in Cup where they make it tough.
                        They'll eventually "out-spend and dominate" in Cup.
                        I wish I knew - Dennis "Cutty" Wise

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                        • #13
                          Larry Mc works for FOX, he is a good guy and a true racer, but like all talking head's on FOX, ESPN and TBS, there is always the suck-up factor. Larry can't say with all honesty that if the cover became magically attached, "Edwards would win anyway," there is nothing that is out there to support that. The loss of any downforce gain he supposedly may have had according to White/Toyota might have caused him to have to run slower, or he may have hit the wall coming out of turn 4 as others did. Larry is race smart, Larry is mechanically smart, but he may not be the brightest bulb on the Christmas Tree, otherwise he wouldn't let himself talk the way he does (IMO).
                          It's always been about the Indy 500!
                          I realize I have the right to remain silent, but don't have the ability or enough common sense to do so.:rolleyes:

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            They all just happened to break at once. It was a bad lot of bolts...
                            Sure, didn't Penske's IRL team get a "bad" batch of wing supports last year?

                            I hate that Larry McReynolds is such a corn-pone shill. I hate that he won't admit what everyone knows, that the only way this cover came off was if it was deliberate because it helps the car. And I hate that he ignores the fact that this exact same violation occurred in the NW race the day before. He might could oughta investigate the story a bit and tell all of it.
                            I suppose McReynolds is waiting to see how Scott Goodyear and Marty handle the fuelgate scandal or maybe their indepth explaination of those "bad" wings Penske ran last year. Or even why Ganassi got so slow right before pole day? When those things happen, I suppose McReynolds will have a good example to follow. Heck, I'm still waiting for IRL beat reporter Curt Cavin to even acknowledge that fuelgate happened.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by don7031
                              They'll eventually "out-spend and dominate" in Cup.
                              Doubt it. There's not enough they can modify in the NASCAR for them to ever be completely dominant. One of the beauties of a spec series running an outdated design as a basis.

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