Mid-Ohio

[mnkywrch]

Would the racing be improved if the places was wider?

Or have the cars simply overgrown the place?

[diftw]

I think the track is fine as is. I think you just need the drivers who are willing to go 2 abreast in the esses and the other passing zones. It used to be so much fun to watch Al Jr. race like he!! over there. He could get his car to handle the high line in the esses and just pass like crazy.

Just my opinion. Great facility.

Dave

[OW fan in OK]

Back when cars had a thousand hp and the wings/body/bottom downforce wasnt as good as it is today,,,, didnt the cars do well on the few streets and roads?? I sure remember some GREAT racing back then.

What makes anyone suggest "the cars have outgrown" tracks? They only have 750 hp,,, under 700hp comming off corners,,, improved downforce, improved tires, trained athletic drivers instead of beer drinking bubba's,, putting on lesser entertainment then "back in the day??"

Why do people suggest the cars have outgrown tracks??

[SteveH]

I was at MO last weekend, my first time there. I was very curious to see the track and its width. IMO I'm not sure a wider track is the answer, most turns/corners are single file anyway, regardless of trackwidth. What does seem lacking at MO, is the ability for the ChampCars to stretch their legs, so to speak. There really are only two straights that offer enough room for the cars to reach top speed. The rest is point and squirt. I don't think that by itself is all bad. Its a more technical form of racing. Also, I think there is a fair amount of aero push when a car gets to close to the one in front. Wider won't help that. Or maybe Jimmy Vasser should give lessons on how to drive at MO, he didn't have any problems moving up through the field. Did see Kyle Krisiloff take Danica Patrick upon entry to the esses on the first lap. It can be done, however FA are a bit smaller than ChampCars, actually quite a bit smaller.

It is a beautiful course. Lots of elevation changes. TV flattens out natural terrain course. Having been to Road America and Laguna Seca, I have now been pleasantly surprised by all three tracks (MO included) as to the amount of elevation change. You just don't see that on TV. I will return to MO, it was a great weekend.

[FCYTravis]

What CART needs to do to increase passing, IMHO, is this:

Increase the amount of downforce coming from the underwing, and
Reduce reliance on downforce created by the front and rear wings.

Champ Cars are far too aero-dependent - if they get in dirty, disturbed air they lose too much grip. A trailing car attempting to make a pass is at a great grip disadvantage compared to the leading car, hence cars can't run side-by-side or pass-and-repass as much as they used to.

Open up the tunnels. Give 'em more stick and we'll see more racing.

[Doctorindy]

Interestinly enough, Mid-Ohio was widened in 1990, you should have seen it back in the 80s...parts of it were real narrown, especially at the very north end...

CART cried back then that they were going to drop Mid-Ohio after '89 if they didn't do improvements. It was fair enough to say that the metal gaurdrails had to be replaced...or covered up by....concrete ones. They also demanded that the "chicane" before the keyhole be paved straight through. I always found that wierd since every other track CART seems to insist that they PUT chicanes on the straights. Either way, it was a good idea to pave it through in the end....however, such strong demands at a time where they were somewhat facing a struggling series...I guess they figured the Meadowlands and the downtown Detroit street courses were better spend time...

Mid-Ohio has put tons of dollars into improving its facility...starting with Jim Trueman...who built those fantastic fan-friendly garages, the tower, and the observation mounds. Then after he passed, they've since paved a good deal of the support area, built a brand new infield access bridge, improved the hospitality area, not to mention completely repaving the track and widening several sections in 1990. They also made an effort to sustain the pavement by putting concrete patches in the apex of the turns. Although some say it's a tricky variable, it has greatly improved the life of the pavement, and has kept it from breaking up.

[mnkywrch]

Like it or not, the bread & butter for many natural terrain courses is club racing.

[slinger]

Originally posted by FCYTravis
What CART needs to do to increase passing, IMHO, is this:

Increase the amount of downforce coming from the underwing, and
Reduce reliance on downforce created by the front and rear wings.

Champ Cars are far too aero-dependent - if they get in dirty, disturbed air they lose too much grip. A trailing car attempting to make a pass is at a great grip disadvantage compared to the leading car, hence cars can't run side-by-side or pass-and-repass as much as they used to.

Open up the tunnels. Give 'em more stick and we'll see more racing.

Exactly. The same would hold true for F1.

[IndyIRLman]

Are the CART machines so wide because they run on ovals? If so, if they do drop all ovals would it be in CART's best interest to make the cars narrower?

[SteveH]

Originally posted by mnkywrch
Like it or not, the bread & butter for many natural terrain courses is club racing.

Sadly, I suspect you are correct.

[Railbird]

the bread and butter is car clubs and schools.

Many of them buy time during the week leaving the weekends open for marquee events. Even an obscure course like Putnam Park stays busy more days a year than most ovals.

Mid Ohio is like every other track in the world, the quality of the events are at the mercy of the formula. This year, without traction control, CART put on one of the more interesting professional events I've seen at that place in years.

[indyracer56]

Originally posted by mnkywrch
Like it or not, the bread & butter for many natural terrain courses is club racing.

I wonder why the clubs don't race at the so-called "easier to drive" ovals????

[FCYTravis]

Originally posted by indyracer56
I wonder why the clubs don't race at the so-called "easier to drive" ovals????

Because the drivers who participate in road racing clubs aren't interested in driving ovals?

Maybe you need a quick refresher lesson in club racing.

The Sports Car Club of America sanctions over 300 races a year throughout its regions - including the Valvoline Runoffs, America's national amateur road racing championships. The 8,000 drivers who race in SCCA events do so, by and large, for the love of the game. There's no money, no TV time, no glory. Just a trophy - and the thrill of having beaten your competitors in a test of man and machine.

There are other club racing sanctioning bodies, such as NASA, and marque-specific racing groups like the Porsche Club of America and the BMW Car Club of America. But SCCA is the 1000-pound gorilla of amateur motorsport in America. It is, in fact, the largest road-racing sanctioning body in the United States. The SCCA also provides the race officials for virtually every professional road race in the nation.

The SCCA's drivers and officials are involved in the organization because they love road racing. That's why they don't run ovals.

[indyracer56]

Originally posted by FCYTravis
Because the drivers who participate in road racing clubs aren't interested in driving ovals?

Maybe you need a quick refresher lesson in club racing.

The Sports Car Club of America sanctions over 300 races a year throughout its regions - including the Valvoline Runoffs, America's national amateur road racing championships. The 8,000 drivers who race in SCCA events do so, by and large, for the love of the game. There's no money, no TV time, no glory. Just a trophy - and the thrill of having beaten your competitors in a test of man and machine.

There are other club racing sanctioning bodies, such as NASA, and marque-specific racing groups like the Porsche Club of America and the BMW Car Club of America. But SCCA is the 1000-pound gorilla of amateur motorsport in America. It is, in fact, the largest road-racing sanctioning body in the United States. The SCCA also provides the race officials for virtually every professional road race in the nation.

The SCCA's drivers and officials are involved in the organization because they love road racing. That's why they don't run ovals.

You take yourself way too serious.

My remark was in jest.

It wasn't like the "I Hate the IRL" junk that you see on cr*pwagon.com.

[bkeske]

I still cannot believe these arguements regarding Mid-Ohio being too narrow for the CART, i.e. 'out grown' the track.

As was mentioned above, the old Formula 5000, the origional Can-Am, etc. all graced Mid-Ohio with their presence and had more horsepower to boot. And it was in the day's of a more narrow track. Nobody seemed to complain. Jacky Stewart *did* complain about the lack of run-off an the end of the back straight, (calling it utterly unsafe), and they *did* cut down some trees to satisfy his complaint in the darkness of the night. Les was not too pleased by Stewart's complaint, but he (Stewart) refused to drive unless something was done. Les did not like to be controlled by the drivers that came to his track, even a World Champion. And a couple have raced there.

In addition, if Mid-Ohio is too small them we better dump all the street courses that this series looks as if they will primarily run on next year. Talk about the inability to 'streatch your legs'. To me, that is the true irony with this complaint.

I'll take Mid-Ohio over any temporary circuit I've been to, and that includes Cleveland, as I simply prefer the atmoshere of a true road course, albeit permanent road corses actually derived from wonderful 'street' courses historically. But they were not 'inner city' road races very often, except for the notable few.....Monaco as example. I just don't think you can lump places like Denver, St. Pete, Miami, Vancouver etc. into the same catagory.