Flustered w/BMW engine propblem...

[bluefeather]

Here's a non racing engine question for any pro or novice mechanic to ponder. Back in July of this year I put my 1985 BMW 735i in the shop to have the head gasket replaced. After I got the car out of the shop, it would not start. It would spin fast enough,but never hit and fire up.

The mechanic shop picked the car up to check all of the wiring, connections and relays. Everything "appears" ok and passes the diagnostic testing. He even tried replacing the computer. He says he has never had a car that got the best of him like this one and has asked to be given time to try to sort it out. I've been driving his loaner car since September so that he can "get to it" in his lean times.

The problem is, I'm ready to put the thing on the curb and move on, but before I do that I want to know if anyone has experienced anything like this with any BMW engine before? If so, what did you do to resolve it? Thanks in advance.

P.S.
If you haven't experienced it,but have an idea of what may be the contributing factors, please let me know.

[rlm]

This should be a no-brainer.
First thing to check for is spark at the plugs.
then fuel pressure in the injector loop,
then make sure the cam timing is correct and there is compression in the cylinders.
The problem has to be in one of those areas and it is no big deal to trouble shoot them.
Everything works the same as on any modern car.

Have you paid this guy anything yet? and is the loaner car an equivalent vehicle to your BMW?
Busy or not, it's his responsbility to complete the repairs to your vehicle in a timely manner, to your satisfaction, within the estimate he gave you and he obviously is ignoring a problem which he created. (The car was running when you took it to him, was it not?)
If he is unable to complete the repairs, he should sublet the job to a shop that is able to and get your approval for any additional charges in excess of his original estimate before any other work is performed. If you do not approve those additional charges, legally you are not obligated to pay for them.

If it were me, I'd be looking for a mechanic instead of a parts replacer, contacting my local Better Business Bureau and talking to an attorney.

PM me if you have any idea which area the problem lies in. I worked as a BMW technician (factory trained at BMW-North America) for over 12 years and had over 45 years in the field before I retired because of health reasons about 5 years ago. Keep in mind that it's almost impossible to diagnose a problem long distance though.

[KenK]

As an ASE Master Auto Technician with 20 years experience, I can
tell plenty of stories about cars where what should not happen
has happened. This tech needs to simply start with the basics
and examine the car as if it was towed in as a "cranks but no
start" condition without regard to what he did before. Sometimes
the theory of "last thing fixed, first thing checked" doesn't work
because people make assumptions, that is they KNOW they did
THAT right, so don't check it.

On a major teardown like a head gasket job it's possible to make
a minor mistake which will shut the car down, but not be obvious
enough to see on a quick inspection.

The fact that he replaced the PCM (computer, Powertrain Control
Module) suggests that he is guessing due to ignorance or lack
of necessary service data (or both). Seldom do PCMs totally fail
on late model cars, usually they are CAUSED to fail, by some
sort of abuse, either by a person or the car's other systems failing
in a catastrophic way (rain leak into the PCM, short circuit, etc.)

Sometimes a person just has a bad day. I had one today, left
a few things loose on a car (nothing saftey related, nor that
would cause the car to quit running). BUT, I got it straightend out
and it left this afternoon with working lights as promised. I woke
up with a bad cold and that hampered my concentration as I
pullled out most of the dash & rewired the light circuits from the
fuse box to the dash illumination & the connection to the exterior
lights. I suppose I COULD have called in sick, but since I'm the
only guy who does this sort of work on Saturdays, I had already
started the job, and it HAD TO GO TODAY so the girl could drive
6 hours to be back at school Monday, I chose to work on it. Today,
she's angry. Had I called in sick, she'd be angry and without a car.

That being said, sometimes a car will SCREW YOU! We've had
2 Maserati BiTurbos fork us over HARD. One actually DROPPED
2 VALVES WHILE SITTING STILL ENGINE OFF!

I expect he'll find the problem if he's a real technician. It's most
likely human error, but, like I said, strange things can happen

[KenK]

Say, rlm:

Your health problems: Are they job related? I'm concerned about
potential future problems due to chemicals & fumes. I come home
"smelling like a garage" every winter, not so much when we can
keep the doors & windows open.

[bluefeather]

Originally posted by rlm
This should be a no-brainer.
First thing to check for is spark at the plugs.
then fuel pressure in the injector loop,
then make sure the cam timing is correct and there is compression in the cylinders.
The problem has to be in one of those areas and it is no big deal to trouble shoot them.
Everything works the same as on any modern car.

Have you paid this guy anything yet? and is the loaner car an equivalent vehicle to your BMW?

I was told that those areas checked out fine. I'll ask that it be done again.
I did pay for the initial work because I was able to drive the car home, but it would not start after I turned it off. It took maybe 4 or 5 tries before it fired up at the shop. I was inclined to just leave it there then, but was glad to have it running right. No money has been paid on any other work. I pay for gas and the oil changes on the loaner. It is a Honda, but I'm ok with that.

Thanks for the feedback from everyone. I'll follow up on this as suggested. Court will be my last recourse. I've been more patient with this than I thought I'd be.

[bluefeather]

Originally posted by KenK
This tech needs to simply start with the basics
and examine the car as if it was towed in as a "cranks but no
start" condition without regard to what he did before.

I will add this to the information given above.
Thanks.

[rlm]

Kenk,

Re: the health problems.

Nothing which can be nailed explicitly to the garage business.

Arthritis and back problems brought on by different strains, sprains, pulled muscles, etc. Some work related, some from racing and other accidents.

Emphysema: probably helped along from leaded gas fumes, paint and cleaning solvent fumes, asbestos from brake and clutch dust, carbon monoxide, and the fact I smoked unfiltered Camels for most of my adult life. (Gave them up nearly ten years ago, but that was about like closing the barn door after the horse has run away.)

Hearing loss and Meniere's disease was probably work related, but there again, we never used any hearing protection either in the workplace or at the racetrack. Also ran heavy equipment at different times and again, never thought about hearing protection.

Just to keep me humble and give me something to think about, I've also had some cardiac problems and the medications for that, along with the others I'm taking cause type II diabetes.

I'd always told folks that I was going to try dieing sometime, just to see what it was like. I tried it. No bright lights at the end of a long dark tunnel. No family or long dead friends waiting for me. Just dark and quiet, same as it was before I was born.

Oh well, it's been one he!! of a journey, more good times than bad, some pretty wild ones tossed in along the way, some good friends, some not so good, some really interesting people and some that really make you wonder why the good Lord allows stupid people to breed.
Have to mention the best wife in the world. Always tried to keep me on the straight and narrow; seldom succeeded, came to drag me out of strange hospitals when the racing went bad; came to bail me out when the local law enforcement people took either me or themselves too seriously, raised two great children, managed to usually balance the checkbook and is still putting up with me after forty some odd years.

My advise to you would be find some other line of work before the trade gets to your health.
But then again, I never took my own advise. I honestly loved the mechanic trade, I've got enough diplomas, certificates, awards, etc. to paper the walls of my office and all of them and a buck of so will buy you a cup of coffee at the local diner.
I was one of the original 200 NIASE certified general technicians that also had the truck as well as the body and paint certifications back in the 1970's. Was also one of the first seven Master Certified Technicians for VW, one of the first Association of Certified Technicians for BMW in this country, held certifications from Ford for their ECC engine management systems and one of their original SVT certified technicians.
After I was forced to retire, I also volunteered as an associate at the local VoTec for a semester.
Have also had some training with the old Detroit Diesel two strokes and the older Cummins diesels.
And I have a hard time tolerating these guys who figure its as easy as replacing a part or two, take the money and move on to the next sucker.

Sorry I got so carried away here.
If you want to reply, why not do it by PM and we'll keep it off the message board.
boB

[Racewriter]

Originally posted by KenK
That being said, sometimes a car will SCREW YOU! We've had
2 Maserati BiTurbos fork us over HARD. One actually DROPPED
2 VALVES WHILE SITTING STILL ENGINE OFF!

When my dad and I had a garage, we performed service work on two Maserati Biturbos. One was one I bought non-running, made a runner out of it, and sold. The other belonged to a Biturbo-owning friend of the guy who bought mine. I performed a fix that, although complicated to do, was so effective that these cars are still running the streets more than a decade later of trouble-free operation.

The fix?

Swap in a 350 Chevy with a 4-barrel.

Takes a little work to do, but MAN, does it make for one bad Maser. I'm thinking of getting another one. Replace the crappy powerplant and rewire with a Ron Francis kit, and those are great cars to drive.

[KnockOff]

Have your tech contact Carl Nelson after 9am PST in La Jolla, CA through www.BimmerDoc.com.

He's the man.

[KnockOff]

Hello?

[Jim Wilke]

Is this thing on?