Question for camking

[Lucky161]

I've been requested to get your opinion of what type of construction and material is used for the frames of the CoT. The person making this request insists that they are not tube frames.

[CamKing]

I'll get back to you with the exact material and sizes used to make the chassis.

[CamKing]

Crome-moly steel.
Both 2"x4" box, and various sized tubing.

[Jakester]

Guess it depends on if you want to call this "O" tubing and this "[]" not tubing.

[R22]

Guess it depends on if you want to call this "O" tubing and this "[]" not tubing.

in all my years of working with metals....

any shape: square, round, rectangle that is fully enclosed with and opening through it is referred to as tubing.......

then you specify wall thickness and inside or outside dimensions.

a rail or beam would be a solid member with shapes denoted as:
I, J, C....etc.

just my experience, maybe not right in today's world.

[Lucky161]

Crome-moly steel.
Both 2"x4" box, and various sized tubing.

Thanks for the research and the reply. I am not sure if the person originally asking will now agree or not, but it's good enough for me.

[jandj]

Not that it matters, but -
In our shop (which includes a couple guys who've built stock cars), if it's round we call it tube. If it's square or rectangular it's called box. May not be right by professional terms, but I think that's how most
people look at it in causal conversation.
If the chassis is box, and the cage is round, I'd personally not consider it a "tube chassis", even though by accepted industry terms, it is.
But- since it's all one integral unit when asembled, it's as clear as muddy water...

[LorenzoBandini]

My handy Ryerson Steel stock list next to my desk has a section called "Tubing and Pipe", with sub-headings "Round Mechanical Tubing", "Round Alloy Tubing" and "Square and Rectangular Tubing".

Square tube, round tube, tube frame.

[jandj]

Again, industry terms aside, I think most people think of "tube" as being round and "box" as being square or rectangular.

When I hear "tube chassis" I think "round".
When I go over to my buddy's garage and see his LMS frame rails, I think "square".

If you want to call square "tube", it's fine with me, but IMHO 99% of the people who don't work in steel fabrication wouldn't.

Which begs the question - when we talk of "tube chassis" Indy cars, are we talking about square shaped frames with round tube attached, or a chassis of entirely round steel?

[Red Byrd]

You know, just calling it spaceframe works and covers the loopholes...

or squareholes.

[mac miller]

Again, industry terms aside, I think most people think of "tube" as being round and "box" as being square or rectangular.

When I hear "tube chassis" I think "round".
When I go over to my buddy's garage and see his LMS frame rails, I think "square".

If you want to call square "tube", it's fine with me, but IMHO 99% of the people who don't work in steel fabrication wouldn't.

Which begs the question - when we talk of "tube chassis" Indy cars, are we talking about square shaped frames with round tube attached, or a chassis of entirely round steel?

* Tube frames can be made from round, square, rectangular and oval TUBING or any combination of these shapes. Current race cars using tube frames include nascar, sprint cars, Daytona Prototype, many GT and rally cars.

* Rail frames, last used in the early 50s, were made from steel formed over mandrils into 3 sided beams...]..... Some cars still using rail frames include "old school" hot rods and vintage sprint cars and midgets. Many of the old hot rod rail frames are converted to tubular frames by welding a steel plate to the open side of the rail, called "boxing"

* Ladder frames can be made from opposing, longitudinal, large section rails or tubes connected by lateral rails or tubes into a "flat" two dimensional structure. Ladder frames have very little torsional resistance. Ladder frames are still used in some hot rod applications.

* Space frames are three dimensional tubular structures offering good beam & torsional resistance and driver safety. Tubular ladder frames can be converted to space frames with the addition of a roll cage structure and tubular triangulated bracing to the four corners of the frame. Most current tube frame cars are designed from the ground up as space frames.

* "Semi monocoque" is a term used to describe a construction of light tubular steel with various interior and exterior metal or composite panels, structurally attached with bolts or rivets to enhance torsional rigidity.
This is actually a purty good way to go and has been used on many race cars over the years. It is currently being used by the Daytona Prototypes. Its most successful proponent over the years has been Bob Riley who has used this construction on everything from Trans Am and GTO cars to WSC prototypes to the current Daytona Prototypes.

* Monocoque can be best described as a giant tube. This tube can be, and has been, round, square, rectangle or oval or, most likely, a combination of these shapes along its longitudinal dimension. Over the years, Monocoques have been formed and fabricated from metal and, are currently, molded of the latest composites. The monocoque "tube" has various holes cut into it for driver access and access to various other components located inside the "tube". It is reenforced with lateral bulkheads at various point inside the "tube" and also has some external reenforcement for the attacement of external components such as the engine/transmission and suspension linkage.

In conclusion:

* TUBING IS TUBING rather it is round, oval, streamline, square, or rectangle and it is listed as TUBING in every industry catalog that I use ....... no matter what "99% of the people who don't work in steel fabrication" think.

* A current nascar chassis is a perfect example of a tubular space frame.

* The best combination of structural, construction, cost, safety and repairability factors is the "semi monocoque" and would be the best
technical direction for the future of racing.

[Red Byrd]

Thank you Mac for that insight!

[fastbuicks]

COT center sections are aftermarket fab'ed to NASCAR spec. One fab shop is owned by former IRL driver Ronnie Johncox in Jackson, MI. Moly tube is turned down to bare min. NASCAR spec for weight savings but maintaining safety factor. The Cup teams can modify their own front/rear clips for geomentry to satisfy their own tastes.

The current debate on COT is the actual safety advantage over old style chassis. The recent advances in soft walls, neck restraints, and seat technology has made the old Busch and Trucks as safe according to many. NASCAR shoved the COT down everyones throats in "efforts to provide safe chassis" for it's Cup stars. They don't seen to question safety when those stars jump into Busch or Truck rides every other week.

[thehairpin]

Crome-moly steel.
Both 2"x4" box, and various sized tubing.

Is this the exact same stuff used in NHRA cars, or is there a metallurgical difference?