what if...

[R22]

with the current direction of the indycar series waffling and trying to appeal to both genres of racing, i.e. oval and twisty, what if?

what if indycar doesn't survive? you may say oh that can't happen. there will always be indycar racing....... will there now? i read a post on the indycar board where someone said the biggest problem was that indycar and auto racing in general need to learn how to appeal to the new generation. that somehow watching men/women driving fast cars on the edge of disaster just didn't appeal to them as much as it did to us "older" folks.

makes me wonder what % of the population did it used to appeal to "back in the day" as compared to the % of today's population?

but back to the subject... what if it doesn't survive?

how much will it affect me? what will i miss the most?
what if anything will take its place and fill the void for the excitement and thrills that i have vicariously enjoyed for all these years?

has auto racing "jumped the shark"? will my grandkids even wonder what it must have been like to have the sensual explosions that attending an indycar event brought to me?

is it in the passing of time that society and culture changes so that what was once taken for granted no longer exists? say similar to the "pony express" and those brave riders that carried the mail across our new and expanding country... i can only imagine the sights, sounds, dangers, adventures, and even enjoyment and satisfaction those riders experienced...

could it be indycar and racing will just be another blip in the past that future generations will only see on videos and in museums on a rainy day?

i certainly hope not, but in it's current direction... well it's very possible that it will.

[cheeseczar]

Do you think it may be due to accessability to information that today's fan has?

I mean us oldtimers had to wait a week to see some of the events on TV, and the only info we got was newspaper and NSSN.
We were so desparate for a taste of it that we were rabid. No?

It's either that or the weather, the economy, going up against the NFL, etc...

[stnkypete]

is it in the passing of time that society and culture changes so that what was once taken for granted no longer exists? say similar to the "pony express" and those brave riders that carried the mail across our new and expanding country... i can only imagine the sights, sounds, dangers, adventures, and even enjoyment and satisfaction those riders experienced...

There probably isn't a sport around that you say the same thing about. You really think the NFL will be around in 100 or 150 years?

[R22]

There probably isn't a sport around that you say the same thing about. You really think the NFL will be around in 100 or 150 years?

well maybe the pony express wasn't a good example. what i'm saying is things that my generation thought to be awesome may be ho-hum to the new kids in town.

that's why i thought maybe the delta-wing would be the wave of the future even if my generation really didn't think much of them. say an aluminum bat thing.. something to spike the interest of the next wave of indycar fans..

if you don't win the kids then it is indeed a dying sport.

maybe a change in distance is required? in 1911 500 miles must have seemed like an awfully long way for a car to travel... now any of us can jump in the car and easily make 500 and some of us do the 1,000 to indy non-stop 'cept for fuel and pppp stops.

say it's no biggie for the indycars to run average "race" speeds at 140 mph, start a race at 10 in the morning and run until 3 in the afternoon. a five hour race 700 miles........ or less. just sayin' anything to make racing not ho-hum.

and yes, cheeseczar, i am have decided that "ignorance is bliss".. the less detail i know about the inards of indycar the more exciting i find it to be... all that is left is getting to the track and having fun. watching fast cars with brave drivers that "seem" to be on the edge of peril whether they really are or not.. too much information lets me know "anyone can drive those things"

whether it's ovals or twisties, something has to be done to jazz the sport up for the kiddos..

or it's d.... ahhhh in big do do.

[VirtualBalboa]

Professional sports as we know them have existed for 150 years. Given that brief period of time, one must believe that as they continue to exist and evolve, some will rise and some will die. If Indycar racing disappears entirely in the next few years, a lot of the "old timers" are going to be just that. Old. And they will probably die within 20 or so years of its conclusion, based on statistical averages. Robin Miller, as an example, is 61. The average lifespan for a white male is roughly 76. Odds are exceedingly good that he will never see the year 2030. By that point, will the numbers of living fans really care enough to miss Indycar Racing in popular culture?

[indyracefan]

500 miles used to be an endurance race and an all day event. I have too wondered if perhaps the Indy 500 should be increased...750, 800?!

[R22]

500 miles used to be an endurance race and an all day event. I have too wondered if perhaps the Indy 500 should be increased...750, 800?!

well or sumtin eh? to reach out and grab the kids of today..

but as for me i think i would love to see a 750 - 800 as it would add an entire new dimensions to the race of men and machines versus the hallowed IMS.

[sifaka]

I am not sure what can be done. My 25 year old son may not be typical, but I fear that he is. He has been interested in racing since he was 8-10. One of his best memories was going to the CART race at Road America, when he was 11. He also remembers with fondness driving from Atlanta to Brooklyn MI for that last MI500 cart race. That was it for him. Though I went to a couple of IRL races, he didn't. He moved on to F1 and follows that avidly. I continued following Indycar, even though I could see the series deteriorating and that the glory days were in our past. Now that the split has ended I look at the calendar to see where I might catch a race. This year it was Indy Alabama (that sounds so strange) and Indy Toronto. My son, who makes sure to see every BBC telecast of qualifying and F1 races, can't be bothered to even watch Indycar. I asked him why, because he was such a really big fan as a kid. Unlike me, he simply will not forgive Tony George for splitting the Indycar family (I don't mean to argue this, I am telling you what my son concluded and his opinion is pretty inflexible on this), add to that his view that the current Indycar looks silly and I can't even get him to watch. Even the promise of going to a race won't intice him.

So it may be that the long-term fallout of the split is that we have lost a generation who moved onto other racing, or onto other sports all together.

On the bright side, F1's turnaround to an exciting and competitive series should give Indycar hope. Change can happpen and if F1 can do it, the most tradition bound form of racing, then Indycar can do it. Let's hope so and let's hope it can bring the lost generation back into the fold.

[Jag-lover]

Assuming the worst and the IICS goes belly-up, the I500 becomes a NASCAR race. The oval fans will gravitate to the short track events and to a lesser extent, NASCAR events. The road race fans will gravitate towards F1, ALMS, vintage car races and Grand-Am. At that point I would think you can kiss AOW racing good bye. There may be a replacement somewhere down the road, but not for a number of years.

[R22]

I am not sure what can be done. My 25 year old son may not be typical, but I fear that he is. He has been interested in racing since he was 8-10. One of his best memories was going to the CART race at Road America, when he was 11. He also remembers with fondness driving from Atlanta to Brooklyn MI for that last MI500 cart race. That was it for him. Though I went to a couple of IRL races, he didn't. He moved on to F1 and follows that avidly. I continued following Indycar, even though I could see the series deteriorating and that the glory days were in our past. Now that the split has ended I look at the calendar to see where I might catch a race. This year it was Indy Alabama (that sounds so strange) and Indy Toronto. My son, who makes sure to see every BBC telecast of qualifying and F1 races, can't be bothered to even watch Indycar. I asked him why, because he was such a really big fan as a kid. Unlike me, he simply will not forgive Tony George for splitting the Indycar family (I don't mean to argue this, I am telling you what my son concluded and his opinion is pretty inflexible on this), add to that his view that the current Indycar looks silly and I can't even get him to watch. Even the promise of going to a race won't intice him.

So it may be that the long-term fallout of the split is that we have lost a generation who moved onto other racing, or onto other sports all together.

On the bright side, F1's turnaround to an exciting and competitive series should give Indycar hope. Change can happpen and if F1 can do it, the most tradition bound form of racing, then Indycar can do it. Let's hope so and let's hope it can bring the lost generation back into the fold.

i'm of the opinion that the "series" was on a slippery slope before the birth of the IRL. however that said, i certainly agree that as a result of the "split" there may have certainly been a lost generation of fans... not only those that are/were road race and twisty fans, but also those that are/were ovalcentric fans..

again, i believe there to be two distinct factions/cultures of american openwheel racing and you can't please both factions with one series....... so it becomes a question of which fandom is most important to your series? and in this case it appears that the direction of the izod indycar racing series is to "cater" to the roadrace/twisty culture. more power to them.

i do believe that eventually that will be the downfall of the INDY 500 as we know it. why would a group of roadracers continue to go race around a historic oval except to have a big payday? just doesn't make much sense to me....

so i truly believe that oval openwheel indycar style racing to be in jeopardy of disappearing from entertainment dollar options.......

and the what if answer for me is: more sprintcar and midget racing at local tracks, with an occasional trip to a "speedweek" type event.. like Indiana Speedweek for the usac sprint cars.

doo

[sifaka]

again, i believe there to be two distinct factions/cultures of american openwheel racing and you can't please both factions with one series....... so it becomes a question of which fandom is most important to your series? and in this case it appears that the direction of the izod indycar racing series is to "cater" to the roadrace/twisty culture. more power to them.

To some extent I agree. I was raised on road racing, cause that was the racing that was closest to my own driving experience. Still I religiously watched the Indy 500 and was most excited by it with the road racing invasion (well the second or 3rd invasion, since F! drivers had earlier invaded in the 30s and 40s). I loved watching Clark, Hill, and Gurney come to Indy. Later it was Donahue and Revson, and on and on. It was great to see the greatest oval masters and the greatest road racers duke it out. In my view Indy was never better than in that era.

Later that degenerated into a conflict between those who only turn right and those who not only turn left and right, but go up and down hills. I think that this became a problem because great road racers can do ovals (see Nigel Mansell), but the complement is a rarer bird (qwho would you name as a died in the wool oval racer, who came up only doing ovals, who entered road racing and wnet right to the top immediately? I can't really think of one.) So the talent moved in primarily only one direction. Indy offered fame, prestige, and lots of money. Road racers like those things, so they moved in. Once they moved in they didn't leave until Tony George tried to kick them out, though I doubt that was his primary motivation.

There is one way to keep the road racers, go the direction of NASCAR. Look at Montoya, or Franchitti, or Villeneuve. The style of racing in NASCAR just doesn't reward the really edgy, quick reflex, precision driving that is required in F-1. Great road racers take forever to adapt to NASCAR, whereas great Indycar Oval racers do great in NASCAR (see Tony Stewart, but then again there is Sam Hornish who kind of destroys my argument).

I am very happy with the mix of courses and wouldn't mind seeing some more Ovals in Indycar (Loudon comes to mind, along with Nazareth, and Phoenix). I agree with you there are too many street races for me, even though I love watching all of them. Expand the series with 3-4 more great ovals (bring back Michigan) and I think the series would be unbeatable. Sadly, the finances just aren't there to do that now. Maybe it will happen, but most likely not. I hope that IndyCar doesn't wither away, though that still seems the most likely outcome of this disastrous decade.

[INDYINDY]

how much will it affect me? what will i miss the most?
what if anything will take its place and fill the void for the excitement and thrills that i have vicariously enjoyed for all these years?

Ask the million or so CART fans who slipped away and found other interests.

has auto racing "jumped the shark"? will my grandkids even wonder what it must have been like to have the sensual explosions that attending an indycar event brought to me?

I hate to say it, but I think it (AOW) is done. I give the ICS five years at the most. The 500 will either become an open race or a NASCAR race, but even as an open race you have to wonder who would actually populate it. The management of ICS seem to lack the ability to see that dramatic, drastic changes are necessary to rejuvenate this sport, RIGHT NOW.

[Chris Paff]

I hate to say it, but I think it (AOW) is done. I give the ICS five years at the most. The 500 will either become an open race or a NASCAR race, but even as an open race you have to wonder who would actually populate it. The management of ICS seem to lack the ability to see that dramatic, drastic changes are necessary to rejuvenate this sport, RIGHT NOW.

I agree with this statement sadly

[indyracefan]

Disgruntled fans predicting the demise of the series & the '500', imagine that.

[INDYINDY]

I agree with this statement sadly

That may be our first point of agreement, grasshopper, although I doubt we both feel that way for the same reasons.

Disgruntled fans predicting the demise of the series & the '500', imagine that.

Give me a break. Every trend is down and has been for years. If it weren't for Hulman-George megabucks, this thing would have died long ago. I suppose you think that our post-automobile, post-industrial culture is going to suddenly reverse preferences and start digging fast cars again, but I do not. And without that miracle, nothing can save it.