TG interview from 1994 talking about the possible need of the IRL

[Indyknut]

Saw this great website on another board. There's a lot of old video snippets of races from the 1993-1994 CART season. A really nice piece done on the history of Phoenix plus some examples of commercials during that time. Most interesting is this video piece where TG is talking about the possible need of the IRL back in 1994. Not too long ago, TG tried to claim that it was the media that spun the grassroots oval racing spiel and not him. While he's difficult to understand on this video, what with all the stammering, uhhhs, ummms, long pauses and sentences that aren't complete, it's pretty clear what he was trying to claim he needed.

An American flavored, oval based racing series. What's more interesting is Tony seems to indicate that expanding overseas isn't a problem, just that it needs to be oval racing and not anything else.

Any of you younger fans who maybe don't remember or just weren't aware, need to watch some of the race video snippets. Evident is a very strong racing series with heavy support from sponsors. This was before the days of manufacturer support too. These teams were funding year long efforts on those sidepod sponsors, not an engine manufacturers tab, or Tony Georges or Kevin Kalkhovens.

Link to '93-94 video with Tony George

Just for some perspective.

In 1994 there were 16 races: 6 ovals, 4 Nat roads, 5 streets and 1 Temp.
The field was averaging around 27-29 cars per race. Of those, there were 12 Americans running that year.

[Chitownfan]

While he's difficult to understand on this video, what with all the stammering, uhhhs, ummms, long pauses and sentences that aren't complete, it's pretty clear what he was trying to claim he needed.

And you're perfect.

[Indyknut]

And you're perfect.

Did you bother to watch the video?

Andrew Craig sounds eloquent compared to TG.

[Chitownfan]

Did you bother to watch the video?

Andrew Craig sounds eloquent compared to TG.

Yes, I did. Mayor Daley of Chicago can't put together a sentence and for some strange reason he keeps getting elected. Don't judge him on his public speaking.

[Turn13]

An American flavored, oval based racing series. What's more interesting is Tony seems to indicate that expanding overseas isn't a problem, just that it needs to be oval racing and not anything else.

That's not what he said, and isn't consistent with other quotes of the time. He did say that oval racing was what he thought they should be trying to perfect and export. I don't take that to mean ovals exclusively. I take it to mean that he was interested in building a series that wasn't F1-lite, but that incorporated and emphasized American-style ovalcentric open wheel racing.

I think that was and still is a good idea - good for the series, good for the sport.

Any of you younger fans who maybe don't remember or just weren't aware, need to watch some of the race video snippets. Evident is a very strong racing series with heavy support from sponsors. This was before the days of manufacturer support too.

I think that last comment depends on what your definition of "manufacturer support" is

But NASCAR was kicking CART's butt, and there really wasn't a trend to the contrary.

I just watched Loudon '94 - the crowd looked pretty sparse among the bleachers. But, yeah, things were in better shape before the boycott, before the IPO, and back when the series worked together with IMS and the schedule (and the talent) had more of that American flair that TG sought to emphasize rather than allow to diminish for short-term goals.

I also don't think "grassroots" means "subsidy" or "anyone can race for $1.95", either.

[jonovision_man]

Paul Page:

"Whatever the outcome, it could drastically effect what we know as IndyCar racing in the future..."

I bet he had know idea just how destructive this would be...

jono

[Richard Kimble]

Saw this great website on another board. There's a lot of old video snippets of races from the 1993-1994 CART season. A really nice piece done on the history of Phoenix plus some examples of commercials during that time. Most interesting is this video piece where TG is talking about the possible need of the IRL back in 1994. Not too long ago, TG tried to claim that it was the media that spun the grassroots oval racing spiel and not him. While he's difficult to understand on this video, what with all the stammering, uhhhs, ummms, long pauses and sentences that aren't complete, it's pretty clear what he was trying to claim he needed.

An American flavored, oval based racing series. What's more interesting is Tony seems to indicate that expanding overseas isn't a problem, just that it needs to be oval racing and not anything else.

Any of you younger fans who maybe don't remember or just weren't aware, need to watch some of the race video snippets. Evident is a very strong racing series with heavy support from sponsors. This was before the days of manufacturer support too. These teams were funding year long efforts on those sidepod sponsors, not an engine manufacturers tab, or Tony Georges or Kevin Kalkhovens.

Link to '93-94 video with Tony George

Just for some perspective.

In 1994 there were 16 races: 6 ovals, 4 Nat roads, 5 streets and 1 Temp.
The field was averaging around 27-29 cars per race. Of those, there were 12 Americans running that year.

1994

Get over it,for crying out loud.

[Indyknut]

1994

Get over it,for crying out loud.

Sorry Richard. I'd suggest not clicking on any of the links if it's going to get your shorts in such a bind.

There are enough young 20 something fans out there that don't have a real recollection of OW racing other than the split and lousy attendance, low car counts, and terrible TV attendance on TV. You only need view a few of these video clips of those days for youngsters to realize things were better just a few years before the split occured.

[Jim Wilke]

Please post some quotes from Kalkhoven from 1994. Perhaps we should have listened to him back then instead.

[Andrew Longman]

Wishing to "perfect" oval racing before exporting flys in the face of the facts and world economic conditions at the time.

If anyone was "perfecting" oval racing it was NASCAR. Given their growth over the time since I'd say they sure are giving oval fans what they want. But even NASCAR hasn't had huge luck exporting it, mostly because of the strong American flavor to it and also because the world does not prefer oval racing.

But by the early 90s it was clearly cemented in nearly everyone's mind that the economy had become a global economy. The notion that the way to keep IMS the mecca of speed was to sell the world on the talents and merits of grassroot Midwest dirt track racers is ridiculous. Maybe local Indiana race fans didn't want to see a Brit, Brazilian or a Mexican at the track, but the more international presence at the race the more the world has interest and the more it gives the race legitamacy.

Also, TG was ignoring that USAC had trouble building attendance until they added road races. Champcars (Indy cars) drew huge crowds when they went to road coarses and it built interest for the class of car beyond just the I500.

In short, TG failed to see that his greatest threat was NASCAR and that his best strategy was not to try to compete with them directly on ovals but instead should have maximized the advantage the I500 gave him. That would mean working with CART present itself as a more compelling worldwide racing series than F1 that attracted the top drivers in the world to a wide variety of venues including the top event in the world: IMS.

[Indyknut]

That's not what he said, and isn't consistent with other quotes of the time. He did say that oval racing was what he thought they should be trying to perfect and export. I don't take that to mean ovals exclusively. I take it to mean that he was interested in building a series that wasn't F1-lite, but that incorporated and emphasized American-style ovalcentric open wheel racing.

Boy, you're sure reading an awful lot into that statement. He talks of the possibility of having to form an new series "with more of an American flavor" if he and CART can't come together on ideals. Of course, it wasn't long ago he was denying he ever said those things, it was the Despain interview on the "Tunnel" if I recall.

I think that was and still is a good idea - good for the series, good for the sport.

The sport of OW racing is on life support. The IRL hasn't worked, it's scraping along on money from Honda and no one's seems interested in feeding it beyond this year. If you think that's good, I'd hate to see what bad was.

I think that last comment depends on what your definition of "manufacturer support" is

What does that mean?

But NASCAR was kicking CART's butt, and there really wasn't a trend to the contrary.

OW racing will never have the appeal that Nascar has. I wouldn't ever want it to change in order to get to that point either although the gimmickry the IRL has attempted over the past few years is certainly in a Nascaresque style.

I just watched Loudon '94 - the crowd looked pretty sparse among the bleachers. But, yeah, things were in better shape before the boycott, before the IPO, and back when the series worked together with IMS and the schedule (and the talent) had more of that American flair that TG sought to emphasize rather than allow to diminish for short-term goals.

You mean, in 1994, before Tony decided another racing series (that wasn't needed) was formed. Before he changed traditional Indy qualifying rules making CARTS participation nearly impossible back when the series tried to work with Tony even though his ultimate goal, from 1991 on was to take the series over one way or the other, back in 1994 when nearly half of the entire CART grid was an American, back in 1994 when CART was running on about every safe, financially available oval there was then. When CART, unable to add to the oval schedule because of lack of ovals, was forced to go to streets as the only available circuits for them to grow on, when the ovals became available, they added them. Yep, things were much better back then.

I also don't think "grassroots" means "subsidy" or "anyone can race for $1.95", either.

Just what did it mean? Who was he talking about? There are direct quotes from TG mentioning Jeff Gordon in particular. Do you need drawings? I and many others knew exactly what he meant and so did he. What a crock it was though. He used that grassroots racing garbage to attract a fanbase that had been left out as the RE, formula, aero race cars advanced. Those fans fell for it hook, line and sinker and were the core of the fanbase in the early years. Where are they now? They've dropped out of this place in droves. Plenty have walked out the door here letting everyone know exactly how they felt about the IRL's direction, they at least finally figured it out.

[JoeBob]

Watching that video, I can see why team owners were reluctant to turn over leadership of the series to TG.

If you're Penske, Haas, etc - do you want him as your new spokesman?

[SJFast]

"Those fans fell for it hook, line and sinker and were the core of the fanbase in the early years. Where are they now? They've dropped out of this place in droves. Plenty have walked out the door here letting everyone know exactly how they felt about the IRL's direction, they at least finally figured it out."

That would be me....

I couldn't care less about what "the world" thinks about American oval racing.

[ray]

Jim, why would any of Kalkhoven's quotes in 1994, have anything to do with the "split" or OPEN Wheel racing? I think you give him more credit than he deserves.How about quotes from Al Jr., Penske, Ganassi, Rahal, Pat Patric. They were involved, Kevin was not. How about Kevin "quotes" in 2005 about Atlantic's, there he is involved, you know those "vaporwear" Swifts and Cosy motors.Maybe 12 for Long Beach, with luck.

[Indyknut]

Watching that video, I can see why team owners were reluctant to turn over leadership of the series to TG.

If you're Penske, Haas, etc - do you want him as your new spokesman?

It's not hard to understand why TG was never taken seriously either in 1991 or when he was stuck on the board w/o a vote. I'm betting those reports from the late Tony Bettenhausen that said that TG basically sat in the back of the room like a bump on a log were true. Can you imagine him attempting to get his point across about anything and ever being taken seriously?



"Tony, can you try and wrap-up whatever it is you're talking about up so we can break for lunch?"

"Well, uhhhh, ummmm... (long pause)... ummm it's like this with the ummmm.. uhhhh... oval tracks uhhhh.... (really long pause) you see......ummm.. American flavor.....uhhh... (long pause)....."

"Tony, we're going to lunch, if you can remember what it was you were thinking about, try and put it down on paper. We'll bring you back a salad."