Some headline writer at SPEED needs a history lesson

[skypigeon]

http://www.speedtv.com/commentary/21773/

I don't care where you stand about anything else: THERE IS ONLY ONE TRACK IN THE WORLD THAT ANYONE CAN CREDIBLY CALL "THE SPEEDWAY," AND THE TRACK THIS WRITER IS TALKING ABOUT ISN'T IT. :mad: :mad: :mad:

[Tony Johns]

Whoa, 'pidge... simmahdahnnah...

I'm arguably one of the biggest IMS freaks here and I don't see anything wrong with the headline. I also think it's rather unrealistic to reserve the worldwide rights to the term "The Speedway" solely for IMS. It's too generic a term.

Now, if the guy had used "The Brickyard," then you'd have a beef...

[dreamracer]

Isn't it a "generic term" BECAUSE of Indy?

I.E.- what it the historical precedent for calling a track that before IMS existed?

It's sorta like Kleenex. A brand name that has come to define a product description.

[Defender]

If it weren't for IMS (with twice the history), I dare say there would be no Daytona (at least as we know it). People too often forget that.

[THIRD TURN]

http://www.speedtv.com/commentary/21773/

I don't care where you stand about anything else: THERE IS ONLY ONE TRACK IN THE WORLD THAT ANYONE CAN CREDIBLY CALL "THE SPEEDWAY," AND THE TRACK THIS WRITER IS TALKING ABOUT ISN'T IT. :mad: :mad: :mad:

Ditto!

[THIRD TURN]

If it weren't for IMS (with twice the history), I dare say there would be no Daytona (at least as we know it). People too often forget that.

Double Ditto!

[Tony Johns]

If it weren't for IMS (with twice the history), I dare say there would be no Daytona (at least as we know it). People too often forget that.

Actually, you'd be more correct in saying that if it weren't for IMS, there would be no Darlington. Daytona was modeled more off of an auto manufacturer's test track than it was off of IMS (although the "high-banked" theory traces its roots to the 1920s and the wood-layered tracks that AAA competed on). Whereas Darlington was designed to be a stock car racing version of IMS. But you are right in saying that IMS paved the way (pun intended) for bringing racing off of the dirt and onto the asphalt.

You're right in another sense, though, in that if people could relate to open-wheel racing as well as they did to Big Bill France's stock cars, there probably wouldn't be a Daytona International Speedway.

I think the larger issue is really this -- in the minds of America at large, saying "The Speedway" no longer exclusively evokes thoughts of IMS. Perhaps that's the part that is rankling you guys most... more than someone using the term out of your preferred context.

[Rommey]

If it weren't for IMS (with twice the history), I dare say there would be no Daytona (at least as we know it). People too often forget that.

I'm trying to connect the dots here...
How did the Daytona 500 begin its existence? They used to run on the beach. Daytona Speedway has no resemblence to IMS and doesn't have its roots in Indy-style racing. I doubt that in the 50s that Indy had a whole lot to do with the creation of a, up until the late 80s-early 90s, mainly a regionalized, southern sport.

Help me out here, what exactly is IMSs influence with the creation and sustainment of the Daytona 500?

[Defender]

Tony, I think the term 'The Brickyard' now means what 'The Speedway' used to. People think what they're brainwashed into believing I guess...and NASCAR's PR machine is the best in the business. Combine that with Fox Broadcasting and there's no limit to the depth of hype. Not criticism. Just fact. I wish the IRL could figure that out one day.

[Defender]

I'm trying to connect the dots here...
How did the Daytona 500 begin its existence? They used to run on the beach. Daytona Speedway has no resemblence to IMS and doesn't have its roots in Indy-style racing. I doubt that in the 50s that Indy had a whole lot to do with the creation of a, up until the late 80s-early 90s, mainly a regionalized, southern sport.

Help me out here, what exactly is IMSs influence with the creation and sustainment of the Daytona 500?

Big Bill was jealous of what the elder Anton had built up and wanted a piece of that pie (or heck, a whole apple pie as big as Anton's cherry pie) for hisself. There's yer inspiration. Lots of raceday traditions; e.g., 'Gentlemen, start yer engines,' etc., began at Indy and got adopted in NASCAR. Still true today actually.

[cheeseczar]

I would have a serious problem if it had read "T.H.E. Speedway"

[Rommey]

Big Bill was jealous of what the elder Anton had built up and wanted a piece of that pie (or heck, a whole apple pie as big as Anton's cherry pie) for hisself. There's yer inspiration. Lots of raceday traditions; e.g., 'Gentlemen, start yer engines,' etc., began at Indy and got adopted in NASCAR. Still true today actually.

Sorry, that sounds too much like your view on things not based on actual events of the time. From what I have read about Bill France is that he was involved in the predecessor of the Daytona 500 since 1936 and he formed Nascar in 1947. The elder Anton only bought IMS in 1945, and the 500 was just ending a 4-year hiatus due to WWII. So essentially, these to racing heads started about the same time. True the Indy 500 had been running for more than a quarter century by this time, the Daytona races had been also running for a little less than a decade.

So I guess what I'm saying is that Big Bill wanted a bigger piece of the pie, I just don't think it was the same pie that Anton the elder had. I don't see a jealousy influence here.

[Jim Wilke]

How many races had been run at The Indianapolis Motor Speedway when NASCAR stopped running on the beach at Daytona?

[Defender]

So I guess what I'm saying is that Big Bill wanted a bigger piece of the pie, I just don't think it was the same pie that Anton the elder had. I don't see a jealousy influence here.

Oh I do. Little revenge, too. It's fairly well documented. Plus, there was a bit of snobbery, too. Some shoddy treatment at the (original) Speedway of the NASCAR honchos. Took decades to get over. That's potentially one reason why it took so long for NASCAR to get to Indy to race. Big Bill and the elder Anton, however, are probably pretty good friends up north right now.

[rocketdoc]

http://www.speedtv.com/commentary/21773/

I don't care where you stand about anything else: THERE IS ONLY ONE TRACK IN THE WORLD THAT ANYONE CAN CREDIBLY CALL "THE SPEEDWAY," AND THE TRACK THIS WRITER IS TALKING ABOUT ISN'T IT. :mad: :mad: :mad:

That was true once, but how can you argue with millions of NASCAR fans as to what "The Speedway" is?

To me, it's the IMS, and always will be, but apparently, the majority of motor racing fans (and apparently the racing press) have changed that, and I'll bet that this has happened within the gestation period of the IRL.


Thanks again, Tony.