Your instant engine dilemma solved

[SportscarBruce]

Adopt ACO/ALMS specs. Supply guaranteed, variety guaranteed, race pedigree guaranteed.

http://www.lemans.org/sport/sport/reglements/ressources/auto_2006/Regl_2006_prototype_ACO_fr_gb.pdf

Part of the problem today is the overspecialization due to individual sanctioning bodies running their own specs. That just isn't cost effective.

[rocketdoc]

Adopt ACO/ALMS specs. Supply guaranteed, variety guaranteed, race pedigree guaranteed.

http://www.lemans.org/sport/sport/reglements/ressources/auto_2006/Regl_2006_prototype_ACO_fr_gb.pdf

Part of the problem today is the overspecialization due to individual sanctioning bodies running their own specs. That just isn't cost effective.

I couldn't agree more.

It's far too simple a solution to be considered, but it is probably the very best solution.

I guess there's no use bringing logic into this... it wouldn't be recognized.

[F1 fanru]

I couldn't agree more.

It's far too simple a solution to be considered, but it is probably the very best solution.

I guess there's no use bring logic into this... it wouldn't be recognized.

Without Honda money there is no IRL.

[Doc Austin]

Or just adopt the entire car and get rid of the openwheelers altogether.

[rocketdoc]

Without Honda money there is no IRL.

I'm not too sure.

Remember the Penske Solution....

But, as I said earlier, I don't know who I would rather have my orbs in their hands; Honda or Penske.

[Cygni]

ALMS specs? Uhhh... no thanks. Grand-Am specs? Hmmmm.... sounds good to me for the ICS.

[Doc Austin]

ALMS specs? Uhhh... no thanks. Grand-Am specs? Hmmmm.... sounds good to me for the ICS.

A couple of things to consider:

Adopting ALMS rules means adhereing to the ACO copyright, and that means the French control everything. We see how many times that's ruined sportscars racing, haven't we?

Right now our biggest consern is getting cars on the grid, and if you compare the two sportscar series, which one is doing a better job?

The biggest hitch in either set or regulations is the use of production engines, which isn't a bad thing, but not very many of them are designed to be stressed members, so you can't just drop in any old motor that fits the formula. The cars would have to be massively re-engineered, and don't thik that would be cheap.

I think the IRL has unwittingly fallen into the best engine situation they could have..... one reliable powerplant provided by one one reliable supplier. It certaily saved champcar.

[SportscarBruce]

A couple of things to consider:

Adopting ALMS rules means adhereing to the ACO copyright, and that means the French control everything. We see how many times that's ruined sportscars racing, haven't we?

You tell me, how many times?

Right now our biggest consern is getting cars on the grid, and if you compare the two sportscar series, which one is doing a better job?

Cars is cars, engines is engines. You're mixing them up. There are choices galore of high-winding and beautiful sounding engines with 600+ hp.

The biggest hitch in either set or regulations is the use of production engines, which isn't a bad thing, but not very many of them are designed to be stressed members, so you can't just drop in any old motor that fits the formula. The cars would have to be massively re-engineered, and don't thik that would be cheap.

??? Take the biggest powerplant currently approved and create a box around it for the engine compartment. Eliminate the usage of the engines as a stressed member, comeon this is the Grand Am method of multiple engine capability you know that. Nothing rocket science about it.

I think the IRL has unwittingly fallen into the best engine situation they could have..... one reliable powerplant provided by one one reliable supplier. It certaily saved champcar.

Existing for the sake of it isn't enough, screw existing and being happy about it. Might as well be living in an iron lung.

But thanks for taking your best shot at peeing in the ALMS serial bowl there Doc.

[SportscarBruce]

The symphony would sound glorious echoing off the IMS grandstands.

[Rommey]

I didn't think there was an engine dilema.

BTW, I don't think Champ Car needs to go away from the 2.65l turbo. Oh, were you talking about the IRL? I thought Honda had that all covered. Would that be the "dilema" you refer to? Maybe Tony can buy all the old Toyotas and use them. There! Dilema solved.

[roadracer]

What's the second from the bottom?

And is that a 4-rotor Mazda at the bottom?

Guess I haven't been spending enough time reading about these things.

[Doc Austin]

You tell me, how many times?

Probably a million. Take a look at the cars they legislated out of existance in their prime and you'll get the idea....Gt40 Mk II and IV, GT40 68-69, 917, 512, 3 liter cars from 72-76, Porsche 936, Renault A442, ALL of group C and then ALL of the 3,5 litre group c cars. Somewhere in there the FIA killed off the GT1 supercars.

How many times are you going to trust them to destroy things? Want to bet they won't have a new set of rules next year, and then the year after and the year after that?

Cars is cars, engines is engines. You're mixing them up. There are choices galore of high-winding and beautiful sounding engines with 600+ hp.

My only consern is paying for it and making sure any approved engine is available to whomever wants it. We don't want a repeat of the '94 pushrod Mercedes, do we? We got the IRL because of that little cluster operation. Do we need to blow it up all over again when we don't have to?

Take the biggest powerplant currently approved and create a box around it for the engine compartment. Eliminate the usage of the engines as a stressed member,

OK. That would pretty much render the current cars unusable, but both series are due for new cars anyway.

comeon this is the Grand Am method of multiple engine capability you know that.

As long as we're making the engines non stressed, we may as well adopt the Grand American engine regulations to the letter.

But thanks for taking your best shot at peeing in the ALMS serial bowl there Doc.

I don't know what you're talking about. I probably go to as many ALMS races a year as you do. You've been hanging around the ow boards too long. Grand American fans aren't automatically enemies of ALMS fans.

All the high and mighty, holier than thou, we-have-the-greatest-technology-and-best-engines way of doing things is great as long as there is someone to pay for it all.

Why is this necessary?

[Doc Austin]

BTW, I don't think Champ Car needs to go away from the 2.65l turbo.

Absolutely. I think that engine is the best thing they have going for them.

The tooling costs are already absorbed and the engines are bulletproof. Right now that's probably the best engine package in all of motorsports. There is no need to spend any more money or resources on developing the things. Just run the crap out of them. Not many racing series have an engine that's this worry free, especially one that puts out this kind of horsepower.

Lots of horsepower, very driveable and dead solid reliable. I'll bet you they could even make a teriffic endurance racing engine out of it with very few tweeks. How many miles are they getting between rebuilts?

[SportscarBruce]

What's the second from the bottom?

And is that a 4-rotor Mazda at the bottom?

Guess I haven't been spending enough time reading about these things.

Sure enough is. Imagine if you will the sounds of a 4-rotor Mazda,, a turbodiesel V8, a Judd V-10, and a Ford modular high-compression V8 with flat plane crank, all battling it out at Indy.

Any engine builder or factory looking to first compete in Le Mans or IRL will have the r&d cost justified by the possible market in the other series. More bang for the buck.

Doc, apology extended. I was out of line there. Now in terms of DP engine specs as an option I just don't agree with that. The DPs are low-revving stock blocks tuned for torque, as they need to be considering the basic engine foundation and the weight of the cars. ALMS prototypes are much closer in average power curve to the IRL spec.

On the tie to ACO rules the arraingement could be very loose, nothing like ALMS & ACO. Engines only, open to whatever power restrictions that the IRL deems necessary. Honda may be considering a Le Mans engine program, food for thought....

[tbyars]

Without Honda money there is no IRL.

How was there an IRL, then, BEFORE Honda money?

Short memories.