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Vision to buy Toyota's IRL engine program?

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  • Vision to buy Toyota's IRL engine program?

    Mark C says TG/Vision is negotiating with TRD to buy and operate their IRL engine operations. No idea who, if anybody, would badge it. First I've heard of this but it does make some sense.

  • #2
    Perhaps this is a sign of the coming end of the badging requirement...

    Other than Mark C, is there a link to this?
    "I didn't hear a single comment about airboxes, "carbashians", or how terrible the car looked. I did see dozens and dozens of little kids in awe of the speed and how cool the cars looked. We should learn from our children."
    --Danny Noonan

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    • #3
      I guess they could truely call themselves "Speedway engines". But yes, I'll wait for the official news.
      Get your head out of your past!!!

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      • #4
        My imaginary sources (no imaginary link) are telling me this might be part of the delay in the new engines rules announcement. Dropping the badging requirement being another possible part of it would be a way to increase the size of the field for 2006, with teams finding builders for those Toyotas.

        What I'm seeing is maybe there was long term planning for 2007 like the engine and chassis rules and maybe some race dates but when Chevy and Toyota wanted out for 2006, some tracks couldn't make the condensed schedule work next year it blew up before everthing could change at the set time, the take a step back to take one forward quote.

        Why California Speedway off the schedule for 06 but both sides say it could return as early as 2007, no manufacturer's interested in badging engines but Penske buying Ilmor, Cosworth saying they would supply their engine, talking to Montreal, talk of running with the Busch Series with nowhere it could work right now and now Tony George buying engines with no manufacturer? on the valve covers.
        "You can't arrest those guys, they're folk heroes"
        "They're criminals"
        "Well most folk heroes started out as criminals"

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        • #5
          Originally posted by skypigeon
          Perhaps this is a sign of the coming end of the badging requirement...

          Other than Mark C, is there a link to this?
          No, that's all I have so far.

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          • #6
            Wow, he really is following the Kalkhoven model.

            Spend a year running a team to see what's going on. Then buy yourself an engine manufacturer.

            How will Honda feel about competing against the House Engine?

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            • #7
              How will Honda feel about competing against the House Engine?
              Ilmor??
              “If somebody blocked you, you either hit ’em in the *** or got out of your car and beat their ***,” said A.J. Foyt

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              • #8
                How will Honda feel about competing against the House Engine?
                Owning a team was a bad idea, but owning an engine supplier in a competitive situation is even worse, IMO.

                If the engine stays a dog, TG would be better off going spec Honda, but if his Tony brand engine suddenly "finds" some speed - ya ya ya.

                I think what this means is that Honda couldn't or wouldn't (most likely) supply the whole grid for 06 and this is back up plan D to bridge the gap for a year. After 07, it'll be spec Honda.

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                • #9
                  Owning a team was a bad idea, but owning an engine supplier in a competitive situation is even worse, IMO.
                  Somebody who was already depressed owning a team was more expensive than he envisioned would probably agree

                  I think what this means is that Honda couldn't or wouldn't (most likely) supply the whole grid for 06 and this is back up plan D to bridge the gap for a year. After 07, it'll be spec Honda.
                  Somebody who realizes there will be nowhere near 33 Hondas come May ’06 would probably agree.

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                  • #10
                    First of all he can't be following the KK business model. KK baught Cosworth for two reasons. One was CC, but the other was to sell Cosworth Tunner kits, and other addons to retail cars and turn a profit. Cosworth is a GREAT name, and Vision isn't. It will take him 10 years, and a billion dollars to match the Cosworth name.


                    Second, why is owning a team a bad idea? Without team owners, ther would be no teams. No teams = no racing. No racing and... well we'll be watching NASCAR.
                    "If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed. If you do read the newspaper you are misinformed." - Mark Twain

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Jim Wilke
                      Mark C says TG/Vision is negotiating with TRD to buy and operate their IRL engine operations. No idea who, if anybody, would badge it. First I've heard of this but it does make some sense.
                      Assuming this happens...

                      1. How does TG/Vision "take over" TRD operation (for the IRL engines)? Does he subcontract the rebuilds/work to TRD, Ilmor, HPD, etc.?
                      2. If he keeps the operation "in-house", what facilities and personnel does he have?
                      3. Is Vision the only team gonna run this engine? Or is TG gonna subsidize Cheever ( and Foyt??) as well?
                      4. If this lump all of a sudden starts blowing away the Honda (even if its legit) it will raise a lot of eyebrows.
                      5. It doesn't make sense from a compitition or business standpoint, IMO
                      If you break a vase and then glue it back together and the vase loses it's value, you do not get credit for fixing it. You get the blame for damaging it....

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                      • #12
                        Assuming this happens...

                        1. How does TG/Vision "take over" TRD operation (for the IRL engines)? Does he subcontract the rebuilds/work to TRD, Ilmor, HPD, etc.?
                        2. If he keeps the operation "in-house", what facilities and personnel does he have?
                        3. Is Vision the only team gonna run this engine? Or is TG gonna subsidize Cheever ( and Foyt??) as well?
                        4. If this lump all of a sudden starts blowing away the Honda (even if its legit) it will raise a lot of eyebrows.
                        5. It doesn't make sense from a compitition or business standpoint, IMO
                        As I said before, I think it's a dumb idea, but TG is facing a situation with the Toyota where they probably told him not to expect further development on the engine, since with the line up of teams there are left, it would be a waste anyway. So he's got a dog with fleas engine and a manufacturer with little incentive to make it better, so he probably cuts a deal - Toyota gets out of their Tony Tax obligation for 2006 and in exchange he gets the castings and current inventory. He can then get Speedway or someone else to try and improve the old Toyota engine for 2006 and dole them out teams when they need entries for Indy .

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                        • #13
                          What if we assume it doesn't happen... is that okay??

                          "Ooh woo, I'm a Rebel just for kicks, now
                          I been feeling it since 1966, now..."

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                          • #14
                            If Toyota is released of their Tony Tax obligations, how does Honda feel?

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                            • #15
                              If Toyota is released of their Tony Tax obligations, how does Honda feel?
                              Good question. Thats the bind the IRL has got themselves in right now. Go with an open supply rule and they lose any leverage they have left to get a Tony Tax from engine manufacturers. Keep a closed supply rule, where they collect the Tony Tax and they have Honda with their mega budget keeping away the other manufacturers. I'm still not sure at this point why the IRL can't pressure Honda to supply the entire field, because once they sign Ganassi,Panther and Penske is it really necessary to have another engine for the scrub teams?

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