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F-1: No customer cars

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  • F-1: No customer cars

    From Atlas PPV:

    Honda's hopes of getting their second Formula One team off the ground appear to be faltering, following the decision this week to not allow teams to run customer cars before 2008, autosport.com has learned...

    It is also not clear yet what impact the F1 Commission decision will have on Red Bull Racing's plans to supply versions of their RB1 car to the new Squadra Toro Rosso outfit, although the team may be able to proceed as long as the junior outfit builds and manufacturer the car and its parts themselves.
    Last edited by doitagain; 10-29-2005, 03:11 PM.

  • #2
    I thought F1 agreed on customer cars being allowed a few years ago?? Ugh. This is a stupid move. But then again, i cant remember an F1 rule change recently that wasnt carried out in a stupid and inefficient fashion.

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    • #3
      Yep. Let's squeeze out the privateer. That's always a good move.
      "Is that my *** that I smell burning?" ... Helmet Stogie from "Death spasms of the Mabuchi"

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      • #4
        Toro Rosso will just buy the intellectual property of RB1 from Red Bull. So they'll be allowed to enter.

        There have been no privateers in F1 since 1982, when Emilio de Villota had a 100% DNQ rate. No change there then. OTTOMH the last privateer to score a point was I think Hector Rebaque in 1978.
        "An emphasis was placed on drivers with road racing backgrounds which meant drivers from open wheel, oval track racing were at a disadvantage. That led Tony George to create the IRL." -Indy Review 1996

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Doc Austin
          Yep. Let's squeeze out the privateer. That's always a good move.
          Doc, the privateers were squeezed out more than 20 years ago.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Doc Austin
            Yep. Let's squeeze out the privateer. That's always a good move.
            Sometimes the FIA/F1CA and Bernie make Champ Car and the IRL look positively brilliant.
            Claude

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Kurt Cobain
              Doc, the privateers were squeezed out more than 20 years ago.
              I think Minardi probably still qualified as one. They weren't backed by a manufacturer.

              There's only one place a privateer still has a fighting chance, and that's in the Grand American, but even that's getting pretty grim. At least you can still go buy a car and race. You can't do that in F1 anymore.


              Originally posted by cmd7
              Sometimes the FIA/F1CA and Bernie make Champ Car and the IRL look positively brilliant.
              You really have to wonder if they all dropped acid together in the 60s. Sometimes I think they may have never stopped.
              "Is that my *** that I smell burning?" ... Helmet Stogie from "Death spasms of the Mabuchi"

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              • #8
                What's Grand American? You mean GrandAm? Or Nascar?

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                • #9
                  ChampCar is 100% privateer, and the IRL only has 1 'works' team. NASCAR has a few teams with strong connections to their mft, but thats only in the funding department... Roush/Hendrick do their OWN work, not something sent from a central office.

                  ALMS and F1 and the factory strong holds. Its my main gripe about the ALMS. Really, if Grand Am had continued R&S Mk III's/Crawford/Lola B2k's style cars, i would have been its biggest fans... and i hate to admit this... but its hard for me to get into a series with underpowered and ugly cars. I know, it goes against all the 'im a true race fan stuff', but honestly, its difficult. In the end though, i support Grand Am much more than ALMS anyway... i just wish they would boost them to 650hp and make em look a little purrdier.

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                  • #10
                    You guys are confusing engine purchasing from chasis purchasing.

                    This story is merely a reaffirmation of the basic long-standing rule that every two car team must be a built from the ground up car. Honda wanted to relabel a customer Honda as an Acura. Basicly Honda would have a four car team.

                    This has NOTHING to do with customer engines, which are common among F1 backmarkers, and will remain so.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Cygni
                      ChampCar is 100% privateer
                      KK and Forsythe own the engine company and run CCWS teams.

                      Isn't Haas still a Lola guy?

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by ptistheboss
                        What's Grand American?
                        Just in case you aren't kidding:

                        http://www.grandamerican.com/


                        Originally posted by Cygni
                        ChampCar is 100% privateer, and the IRL only has 1 'works' team.
                        Between AGR, Penske, Ganassi and maybe Rahal, which three aren't factory teams? I think it's general concensus that AGR is Honda backed, but it's hard to believe Roger and Chip are getting some backing.

                        Yes, champcar has got all privateers. They can do that because they have a sensible engine package. Where the funding comes from is another debate, but someone has to pay for everything. Even if the Amigos are throwing money out there, the series remains affordable enough for them to do so.

                        The one sure thing champcar has going for them that's bulletproof is the engine program. I know of one that Tracy blew up a few years ago, and maybe one he blew up in the last race, but that's all I recall. Looks to me like you just plug the thing in, forget about it and go race. They can get away with this because they have detuned the thing to where they aren't nearly as stressed as they were when the same motor had to compete against Toyota and Honda. That's not a critisism....that's just how it is. I like champcar's engine program, and if they make the series the success it's proponents seem to think it will be, that engine will be the foundation.

                        With engines out of the way, all that's left is the chassis, and anyone who has the money can buy a champcar chassis. You can't do that anymore in F1.
                        Last edited by Doc Austin; 10-30-2005, 07:18 AM.
                        "Is that my *** that I smell burning?" ... Helmet Stogie from "Death spasms of the Mabuchi"

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                        • #13
                          Doc, you could have a point there, but I was thinking more in the lines of these long, lost privateers of the past: Amon, Rebaque, LEC, and Teddy Yip's old Theodore team.

                          Long gone days.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Kurt Cobain
                            Doc, you could have a point there, but I was thinking more in the lines of these long, lost privateers of the past: Amon, Rebaque, LEC, and Teddy Yip's old Theodore team.

                            Long gone days.
                            Sad, yes, but if tyou want a big league sport there's no room for small time guys. They always get squeezed out. It doesn't make sense to legislate them out on top of it, not to me anyway.

                            Right now, the Grand American is about the only place where a rich guy can buy, hire someone like Alex Gurney a car and run up front. OK, I guess you can do the same in champcar, but we are talking spec cars with sealed motors all the way there. That's not a dig......that's the way the two series are different from each other. I'm already on record as loving champcar's engine package.

                            You watch what happens in Grand American in the next two years or so. As it grows the rich will get richer, and those that don't find the mega funding and factory backing are going to either get blown out, or they will be back there running around with the GT cars. I hope I'm wrong because I love that series, but if it ain't a spec seires the rich always drum the poor out of dodge.
                            "Is that my *** that I smell burning?" ... Helmet Stogie from "Death spasms of the Mabuchi"

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                            • #15
                              You've already sold me on GA, but I'm going to watch more. It's a fun series.

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