Doc & 'coolest on CART

[Doc Austin]

(Note from doitagain: the following posts were culled from the "Tony George Interview" thread, because it appeared a new topic was evolving there. This is my first experience with the "Split Thread" function. I had to parse the original posts with just the first few words of each post as a guide. Sorry for the disturbance. - doitagain)

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[Doc Austin]

Originally posted by SJFast

I'm looking for some good news.

Well, here's some news, anyway................

[Doc Austin]

Originally posted by akimbo
I think it's neat that 8 years after the formation of the IRL that there are still people willing to argue whether the IRL was formed to give the little guys a chance to race at Indy.....

That's an irelevant point. The little guys did have their chance, certainly in 1996, and as late as 1999. They had the series almost all to themselves and hadn't stepped it up to the point that they could deal with the big dogs when they came in.

You can't protect the little guys without installing league accountants in every team. You can control the cost of the equipment and assure it's availability, but the big teams will just spend it on something else. Sometimes it's useless, like with bigger motorhomes, and sometimes it's on things like the best personell.

or to give Mr. Tony George control of OW racing.

Well, he has control, so get used to it.

Is there really any doubt any more?

You can hang onto that as long as you want, but it isn't going to make a difference to cart. It's only going to eat you up and prevent you from enjoying the racing.

That goes for everyone who thinks this is a relevant argument. It isn't. It was eight years ago. That was then. In the now the IRL puts on the best races ever seen. I'm not going to let any discontent over how cart got the boot ruin that for me.

However, the malcontents are sure ruining my enjoyment of forums.

Why not to move on to how the 'success' that Mr. Tony George has created of Ow racing can be fixed.

Like anyone here can do anything about it except uselessly vent their uninformed opinion. Like what anything anyone says here will ever make any kind of difference. Instead of trying to positively build our sport and help bring the excitement to the new fans, the forums have degenerated into [whining] parlors. You people are wasting a valuable tool.

The sport hasn't healed from the scorched earth policy of the IRL detractors and Tony-haters. It's going to take time for that. The product is in place. I suggest everyone forgets whatever bitterness they harbor and enjoy the races.

But that's too simple.

[Doc Austin]

Originally posted by El Mariachi
anyone that ever asks me the definition of revisionist history, i will direct them right to this thread

History was made Sunday with the breaking of the race distance 200mph barrier, but not many of you showed up to celebrate that.

I guess tearing the sport down is all that matters to some.

[Turn13]

Originally posted by FCYTravis
You have NO evidence that CART negotiated in bad faith except for the word of one blatantly biased party.

You should have been reading Robin Miller's column before 1996.

The contemporaneous racing press in general also records the issues surrounding George's push for oval-friendly specs, cost controls, the use of the Indy Car brand, the 25/8, the purposely conflicting dates, the reversals on specifications, and the rejected Penske / George compromise on Indy qualification rules for 1996.

[Doc Austin]

Originally posted by FCYTravis


You have NO evidence that CART negotiated in bad faith except for the word of one blatantly biased party.

Pat Patrick is biased?

And as an example of cart operating in good faith, we could examine them ripping off the fans and sneaking out of town with their money in Texas. that's a good example.

Colluding with and against it's manufacturers on the pop off spacergate scandal was another good one.

What about the whole Uncle Joe stink?

I wonder how John Judd feels about dealing with cart in good faith. Before they paid off his lawsuit, that is.

Hey, and we haven't even gotten into scorched earth, insider trading.....and whatever. If you need more, well...........the is more.

Was the REAL 500 run in good faith?



Errrrrrr, sorry. the pattern is undeniable.

[Doc Austin]

Originally posted by Area54
You are joking right?

Why joke about something that isn't funny?

Every fan got their money back.

Sure. TMS operated in good faith and refunded the money. Meanwhile, they were hung out to dry when they were forced to sue cart to get the fan's money back. cart accepted the money paid them in good faith, delivered no product, and snuck out of town with the money leaving the lawyers to sort it out.

CART never took one red cent from a fan. TMS was the promoter and responsible for all transactions with the fans and they dealt with the situation appropriately.

Play with the words any way you want, but cart refused to pay back a penny until the courts intervened.

I went to the TMS non-race and was refunded 100% of my ticket price.

you were paid back with thetrack'smoney while cart weaseled it's way out of town with money that wasn't theirs.

Not a very good example of the point you are trying to make.

You don't understand what integrity is about?

Not a very good example of the point you are trying to make.

Notice this guy didn't address the other points.

Re-incarnation is for real.

[Area54]

Originally posted by Doc Austin
Why joke about something that isn't funny?

Sure. TMS operated in good faith and refunded the money. Meanwhile, they were hung out to dry when they were forced to sue cart to get the fan's money back. cart accepted the money paid them in good faith, delivered no product, and snuck out of town with the money leaving the lawyers to sort it out.

Play with the words any way you want, but cart refused to pay back a penny until the courts intervened.

you were paid back with thetrack'smoney while cart weaseled it's way out of town with money that wasn't theirs.

You don't understand what integrity is about? Maybe you can get a job with cart then.

Notice this guy didn't address the other points.

Re-incarnation is for real.

You said they ripped of the fans and took their money. You were wrong and never mention TMS one time.

TMS was paid for the effort to their liking. IF not, it would have gone to court.

What about Joe? You never made a point.

You are accusing people of a felony without substantial evidence. So, I won't even address that because there would have been indictments if needed. Not only were there no indictments but there aren't any allegations or investigations for insider trading.

[respond to the topic - the taunt at the end was un-necessary]

[Doc Austin]

Originally posted by Area54
You said they ripped of the fans and took their money. You were wrong and never mention TMS one time.

Any way you want to cut it, they left town with money that wasn't theirs. Why is integrity such a difficult concept for you to grasp?

TMS was paid for the effort to their liking. IF not, it would have gone to court.

Sure they were paid. After they were forced to sue.

What about Joe? You never made a point.

You must have missed out on being "obviated."

You are accusing people of a felony without substantial evidence.

I didn't use the word "felony."

So, I won't even address that because there would have been indictments if needed.

Sure. there are no indictments. Yet.

Not only were there no indictments but there aren't any allegations or investigations for insider trading.

Not yet. Nothing public. There are rumors. And there are allegations. Check up on what Vannini has been saying.


Comedy is too sweet.

And that's no felony.

[ensign14]

Originally posted by Doc Austin
Yes. cart was so hapless that they got squashed by an inexperienced dufus.

Even an inexperienced doofus can win at poker, if he is given a royal flush.

CART needs the Indy 500. The IRL needs the Indy 500. It is a miracle that CART has survived this long without it and a testament to its strength - and by analogy that of open wheel racing - in 1995.

There is no way on earth the IRL could have survived without the 500 for so long. Look at the ol' USAC Gold Crown series, vanished without trace even with the 500.

[Doc Austin]

Originally posted by ensign14
[B]Even an inexperienced doofus can win at poker, if he is given a royal flush.

Then how smart was cart to call the Dufus' bluff when they knew what kind of cards he held?

[ensign14]

Originally posted by Doc Austin
Then how smart was cart to call the Dufus' bluff when they knew what kind of cards he held?

If every choice you have is a poor one, what can you do? Delay as long as possible. Something may turn up.

[indycoolest]

Originally posted by Turn13
He's just more humble about his accomplishments, than I am about his accomplishments.

Why don't you just concede the point that your record and motivations have been more consistent and clearly communicated over time than Tony George's?

I've heard several famous artists make the remark that they were fascinated to hear what the critics had to say about their work because they were unaware of all the interesting things they had been thinking about when they created it.

[Doc Austin]

Originally posted by ensign14
[B]If every choice you have is a poor one, what can you do?

Sell the sport out and screw the stockholders out of their money?

[Area54]

Originally posted by Doc Austin
Sell the sport out and screw the stockholders out of their money?

In actuality, the fact of the matter is that CART only issued stock one time. That stock did make money for the investors if they chose to sell it at an opportune time. CART never issued more stock to dilute the initial investment.

Therefore, your statement is false.