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Let's Discuss the Engine Manufacturers and Their Power, Shall We?

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  • Let's Discuss the Engine Manufacturers and Their Power, Shall We?

    If the following things have been allowed to happen, I want them NOT to happen again, and I want sanctions against the perpetrators.

    1. Unnamed engine manufacturer(s) outright told teams not to use the Falcon chassis. Source: Scott Bennett

    2. Toyota supposedly voided existing contracts an existing IRL team and one that ran all last year had with an authorized IRL engine rebuilder. In the case of the team that ran last year, their sponsorship deal with a quality sponsor was also voided after Toyota reneged, and that's why they are not in the league this year.

    3. Unnamed engine manufacturer(s) are delivering sealed motors to teams with instructions to take it out of the box and bolt it in, then send it back afterward without so much as one superfluous Craftsman tool touching the thing.

    If any of these are true, such actions MUST be stopped, even if it means kicking out the offending company(s).

    I have not supported the IRL since its inception to watch this kind of nonsense begin to fester. That's one contributing factor to the demise of c^rt.

    FIX THIS SITUATION AND FIX IT NOW.

  • #2
    In regard to item #3 -

    I've always hated the idea of "preferential treatment" when it comes to teams obtaining engines. Here's my idea for preventing it:

    1. Manufacturers not be allowed to ship engines directly to teams.

    2. Manufacturers would be required to maintain an inventory of, let's say 5, engines at a central clearing house - (an IRL warehouse ).

    3. As each crate comes in, it is assigned a number.

    4. As teams require an engine, they or a designated IRL official would reach into a bottle and pull out a numbered "pill" (kind of like drawing for qualifying) and receive the corresponding engine.

    No more getting favors!

    jcr

    Comment


    • #3
      One of the founding principles of the IRL is equal access to equipment. It appears that we do not have that now.

      The engines that Toyota and Honda will sell you are not the same enignes they will lease you.

      The IRL brass bad-mouth CART's policy of engine leases by the manufacturers. Now it's happening in the IRL, and it's still a bad thing.

      It's enough to make me puke.

      The IRL should enforce their one-time standards and prohibit sealed leases by the manufacturers.

      If Speedway, Ilmor, Comptech, Menard, etc, want to lease engines exclusively, fine. But at least two rebuilders, not counting the factory, should be required.

      Get with the program, IRL.
      If you do what you've always done...

      you'll get what you've always gotten.

      Comment


      • #4
        Why not let anyone who builds an engine to spec race?

        Comment


        • #5
          why not?
          If you do what you've always done...

          you'll get what you've always gotten.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by TxIndyFan
            why not?
            The league needs the promotion provided by the manufacturers.

            Comment


            • #7
              Why not post something that is fact . . .

              Last edited by 220mph; 08-13-2003, 12:44 PM.

              Comment


              • #8
                here are a couple of facts
                • Equal access to equipment is a founding principle of the IRL - do we have that now? Are all Toyota leased engines "equal", are all Imors equal?
                • The engine that you can buy from Ilmor or Toyota is not the same engine that they will lease you
                • The IRL brass bad-mouthed engine manufacturer leases and control in CART
                • The IRL now has that same situation


                It's not your father's IRL, 220.

                Anyone should be able to buy a Toyota or Ilmor engine, take it to one of at least two approved non-factory rebuilders, or rebuild it himself, and it should have the same parts for everyone. No leases by the manufacturers!
                If you do what you've always done...

                you'll get what you've always gotten.

                Comment


                • #9
                  220 does the league not need the promotion money?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    What does the promotion money have to do with engine rules???

                    IT DOES NOT.

                    In case anyone has been wondering, the promotion money concept has around since before T&H considered coming over here, and there weren't any of these complaints back then now were there?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      It seems like a great many folks here believe that Toyota and Honda aren't providing equal equipment. Do you have any facts to support this? Why is no one complaining about GM/Chevy? These same charges were levelled at them last year - not by forum know-it-alls but by IRL teams. It was also known that GM supplied parts to a select team or teams that it would not give to others.

                      Also, consider that RIGHT NOW not every Chevy team is getting the same engine and everyone knows that. Same got the Cosworth first and another team got it the next race. While this may have been due to supply problems it certainly violated the idea equal equipment and equal availability (setting aside the whole discussion of the 3 year freeze to keep costs down which was conveniently overlooked to help GM).

                      It's not just Toyota and Honda you folks need to gripe about.
                      "I would really like to go to NASCAR. I really enjoy NASCAR and if I could be there in a couple of years that's where I'd want to be." - Jeff Gordon (after testing a Formula Super Vee)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I could be wrong, but I thought in order to badge an engine a manufacturer had to also agree to provide promotion money for the league. If that is indeed the case it would seem promotion money has a lot to do with the engine rules.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Jeret.com
                          What does the promotion money have to do with engine rules???

                          IT DOES NOT.

                          In case anyone has been wondering, the promotion money concept has around since before T&H considered coming over here, and there weren't any of these complaints back then now were there?
                          No promotion money = no engines.

                          No engines = no need for engine rules.

                          also

                          No engines = no racing = no IRL.

                          It's quite simple really.

                          Like the line in "The Right Stuff"

                          No bucks, no Buck Rogers.
                          "I would really like to go to NASCAR. I really enjoy NASCAR and if I could be there in a couple of years that's where I'd want to be." - Jeff Gordon (after testing a Formula Super Vee)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Facts:

                            1. 1. Unnamed engine manufacturer(s) outright told teams not to use the Falcon chassis. Source: Scott Bennett

                            Rumors:

                            2. Toyota supposedly voided existing contracts an existing IRL team and one that ran all last year had with an authorized IRL engine rebuilder. In the case of the team that ran last year, their sponsorship deal with a quality sponsor was also voided after Toyota reneged, and that's why they are not in the league this year.

                            3. Unnamed engine manufacturer(s) are delivering sealed motors to teams with instructions to take it out of the box and bolt it in, then send it back afterward without so much as one superfluous Craftsman tool touching the thing.

                            Facts are facts. And the circumstances about the one I provided should never be allowed.

                            About the rumors: Normally I wouldn't pull a Sip Balogna or out and out lie or make something up like Robin Miller, but 2 and 3 have been relayed to me by multiple people with inside information whose specific information won't get released by me because it's not my place, and I don't want to them put in a bad spot. If those close to the situation choose to, that's great. If not, hopefully a reporter with integrity will happen by and either blow the covers off or let us all know everything is fine except for hostil rumors by those who would like to see the IRL die.

                            My only point here is that I didn't sign up to watch the IRL bend over that much for the kind of sponsorship dollars T & H brought to the table. If these problems are occurring, and we now know #1 did, then it's inexcusable and I want it halted using whatever means are necessary.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              1. 1. Unnamed engine manufacturer(s) outright told teams not to use the Falcon chassis. Source: Scott Bennett
                              I believe this was Honda and Greg Ray. FWIW, this may have more to do with the fact that they had limited resources and engines; they wanted their engines in competitive cars and since Greg was only going to be able to buy one chassis, they may have felt it was wiser to have him buy a different chassis and not take a chance.

                              Comment

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