Are we just "split" fans or do we have principles?

[AdamM]

I just have to shake my head when I see the same folks who used to condem manufacture shenanigans when it was a CART problem now explaining away the same manuvers as being "good for the series".

I'm just waiting for the first time someone trys to explain to me the difficulties of man-handling an Indycar around the concrete canyons....

Yep, Bird that’s exactly where we are at. I too wouldn’t be surprised when some IRL fans start signing the praises of street courses. It’s going to happen and those of us who oppose it and remind people that it is totally hypocritical, will be shouted down or branded as complainer’s or told we just “misunderstood” the vision TG and the IRL were communicating back in the early days (yea right, look at an IRL program or press release from 96 & 97 and tell me we misunderstood.)

It’s a bizarre situation. I thought most of us who were IRL fans were opposed to CART based upon principles. That’s why when the IRL does the same things that we complained about in CART, fans ought to be equally upset, maybe even more so, instead of coming up with weak excuses to justify it (why weren’t those excuses ok for CART back in 95?) And it’s not just IRL fans. I see CART hardcores doing handsprings justifying a series that they would have mocked a few years ago.

I’ve come to the conclusion that a significant % of “fans” on these type of forums were in it just for the “split.” Everything was about CART losing and the IRL winning (and vise versa) even it means morphing into something that looks an awful lot like what they originally opposed. For these folks there were no principles to uphold, no consistent vision, just CART going into the dumper and Tony George running the show (again the reverse is true for the CART hardcores.)

In some sense I have a deep level of respect for some of the CART fans who we don’t hear much from anymore. I suppose many walked away, or gave up, rather than give support to a CART series that is hollow shell of its former self and embrace what they had previously opposed (note this excludes the type of goofball that hangs out at c-wagon – the very worst example of “split” fans on the net IMHO.) Now I totally disagree with their (legit CART fans from the 90’s) ideas about the direction of the sport and I still to this day think the CART series as put together in the mid and late 90’s was in need of a massive overall or retooling to make it attractive to US fans. But in a sense I respect their position because it was taken for reasons of principle – of course I disagree with them, but I can at least appreciate where they stand.

Man, this is a crazy situation.

[Shadow101]

Re: Are we just "split" fans or do we have principles?

Originally posted by AdamM
I’ve come to the conclusion that a significant % of “fans” on these type of forums were in it just for the “split.” Everything was about CART losing and the IRL winning (and vise versa) even it means morphing into something that looks an awful lot like what they originally opposed. For these folks there were no principles to uphold, no consistent vision, just CART going into the dumper and Tony George running the show (again the reverse is true for the CART hardcores.)

Bravo. Could not have said it better myself.

[hdolan]

The 'we win' group are extremely happy...they are willing to accept everything that CART represented through the years...the very same things that the 'we win' group initially bashed CART for...good post...

[dreamracer]

Re: Are we just "split" fans or do we have principles?

Originally posted by AdamM
Yep, Bird that’s exactly where we are at. I too wouldn’t be surprised when some IRL fans start signing the praises of street courses. It’s going to happen and those of us who oppose it and remind people that it is totally hypocritical, will be shouted down or branded as complainer’s or told we just “misunderstood” the vision TG and the IRL were communicating back in the early days (yea right, look at an IRL program or press release from 96 & 97 and tell me we misunderstood.)

It’s a bizarre situation. I thought most of us who were IRL fans were opposed to CART based upon principles. That’s why when the IRL does the same things that we complained about in CART, fans ought to be equally upset, maybe even more so, instead of coming up with weak excuses to justify it (why weren’t those excuses ok for CART back in 95?) And it’s not just IRL fans. I see CART hardcores doing handsprings justifying a series that they would have mocked a few years ago.

I’ve come to the conclusion that a significant % of “fans” on these type of forums were in it just for the “split.” Everything was about CART losing and the IRL winning (and vise versa) even it means morphing into something that looks an awful lot like what they originally opposed. For these folks there were no principles to uphold, no consistent vision, just CART going into the dumper and Tony George running the show (again the reverse is true for the CART hardcores.)

In some sense I have a deep level of respect for some of the CART fans who we don’t hear much from anymore. I suppose many walked away, or gave up, rather than give support to a CART series that is hollow shell of its former self and embrace what they had previously opposed (note this excludes the type of goofball that hangs out at c-wagon – the very worst example of “split” fans on the net IMHO.) Now I totally disagree with their (legit CART fans from the 90’s) ideas about the direction of the sport and I still to this day think the CART series as put together in the mid and late 90’s was in need of a massive overall or retooling to make it attractive to US fans. But in a sense I respect their position because it was taken for reasons of principle – of course I disagree with them, but I can at least appreciate where they stand.

Man, this is a crazy situation.

Great post. (Especially that last sentence... )

[Defender]

Originally posted by hdolan
The 'we win' group are extremely happy...they are willing to accept everything that c^rt represented through the years...the very same things that the 'we win' group initially bashed c^rt for.

I'd like to take myself out of that broadly brushed group, please.

There are a lot of c^rt-like things I refuse to accept about today's IRL, including:

Toyota not adhering to contracts.

Sealed engines.

Ineffective promotion.

Ride buying.

That said, anyone who thinks the IRL is now c^rt is either woefully stupid or not paying the least bit of attention.

For every concocted similarity these unwelcomed buffoons attempt to foist (usually in a variety forums that purportedly have the IRL as the main topic) I can give five dissimilarities.

In summary, the sky is not falling, and real racing fans are not the hypocrites people who generally don't even know how to spell that word portray them to be.

[hdolan]

"There are a lot of c^rt-like things I refuse to accept about today's IRL, including:

Toyota not adhering to contracts.

Sealed engines.

Ineffective promotion.

Ride buying.

That said, anyone who thinks the IRL is now c^rt is either woefully stupid or not paying the least bit of attention."

Thanks for list...the duck syndrome...perhaps I'm just woefully stupid...

[slinger]

"Thanks for list...the duck syndrome...perhaps I'm just woefully stupid..."

All things are possible.........

[indyracer56]

I have always been a fan of the IRL and Cart.

While oval tracks are my favorites, I can enjoy street races for what they are....I have even spent money to attend the Detroit GP.......more than once.

I didn't even know that this "holy war" existed until I discovered the forums.

Ignorant bliss.

I think that the people who have only been in this to see one side "lose" and the other "win" will not be happy no matter what happens.

[IndyIRLman]

I sure as He77 am not a "split fan". I hated the split. I was absolutely PO'd at the fact that MA, AUJ, PT and others were not going to be racing at Indy. I knew nothing of the politics of racing. I was crushed. In fact I wouldn't even watch the first few IRL races except for Indy(I wouldn't miss THE 500 no matter how pi$$ed off I was). My father-in-law( and IRL fan from day 1) kept telling me I should watch and enjoy the racing. One day I finally listened to him and began to let the anger fade. I decided to find something positive from it. That would be that I would have twice as many races to watch.

In time I started to like the IRL better than CART. The IRL is now my favorite series. But I still like CART and watch all of their races(except RA this year).

[slinger]

Originally posted by indyracer56
I have always been a fan of the IRL and Cart.

While oval tracks are my favorites, I can enjoy street races for what they are....I have even spent money to attend the Detroit GP.......more than once.

I didn't even know that this "holy war" existed until I discovered the forums.

Ignorant bliss.

I think that the people who have only been in this to see one side "lose" and the other "win" will not be happy no matter what happens.

What happens to those whose reason for living is hating something and the thing they hate dies? They are left with nothing.

[dreamracer]

I didn't even know that this "holy war" existed until I discovered the forums.

Indeed.

Before that, I was just a happy race fan.

In my uninformed opinion I thought the IRL ideology was about more americans, less costs, and ovals. I had no idea it was about "greedy owners" and "bumbling management". I could have given a rat's patootie about "the failing board structure and proposed alternate management structure" of CART. I thought thier show was just fine.

They raced, I watched.

I was one of those fans that the CART sanctioned "Indycar" brought to the sport.

That was then, though.

Now I spend too much time reading (and occasionally letting myself get drawn into) the pi$$ing matches on the forums, that usually degrade into insults. The "He started it" crud that pollutes an otherwise exceptionally informative place. Not sure why, though. (I guess it's a little bit of the train wreck mentality.)

I'v never been a "Split Fan".

Wishing ill will on others (fail dangit! fail!) is really just bad karma.

[indyracer56]

Originally posted by slinger
They are left with nothing.

Is that another name for a NASCAR fan????

[carl s]

Originally posted by slinger
What happens to those whose reason for living is hating something and the thing they hate dies? They are left with nothing.

Wise words Slinger
the Sage of Wareham

They "are" left with nothing - but themselves.

carl s
Indio, CA

[IndyIRLman]

nevermind

[timinglights]

Originally posted by Defender

In summary, the sky is not falling, and real racing fans are not the hypocrites people who generally don't even know how to spell that word portray them to be.

The sky isn't falling.

But TV viewership for the Indy 500 is.

Why?